Favorite Art Archives w/ Vikki Jenner

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Janelle

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Janelle Diethelm

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Transcript

...

So hello everyone. Happy.

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Thursday they were almost through the week. I know it's been

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along me for a lot of us I am super excited to

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have Victoria genre here with me on stage today.

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we're gonna be talking about our favorite for our archives. Victoria is one of

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my good friends over in Uk thank you so much for being here. I know it's

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from dinner time for you. I am just

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I always love talking about archives with you. We always get into the best sort of nerd.

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tangent.

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We hear me

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Yes.

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you say much for having me? Thank you. And can you hear me first of all, episode?

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Fantastic. That is the fast has i I'm with.

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Right. Yes. We can hear you loud and clear the beauty of Fire

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I love that we don't have to use.

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super duper expensive mics to get decent quality sounds but always win

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Right? For those of who don't know, I'm, and this is the bu art historian where we talk

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about our history over drinks. And today, like I said, I have incredible

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Vicki General, Vicki British art historian digital producer and colleague of mine at the

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i for the history of collecting.

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like, I said she's been incredibly kind and come over here to just

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nerd out with me over the archives.

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And for those of you who don't know our archives are these

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wonderful little treasure trove all over the world that's

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store primary sources. And when I say primary resources and sources

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I mean, things like letters, receipts, records, I mean,

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everything in anything, this kind of a firsthand hand account

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And this is really essential to a lot of art historians and historians.

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when doing research we're trying discover new things or connect

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points, if you will,

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primary resources are just absolutely invaluable. And so

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I think this is gonna be a fun way to kind talk about different things. And if people don't know these

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resources these archives, then that this is a great way to promote them as well too.

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Right. That being said, Vicki. Hello. Hi.

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hard remember properly you had just been to the Washington manner earlier this week. Right.

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Oh, thank. We can't hear you if you're talking.

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I was say, vicky. If you can hear me, maybe try closing out the app and coming back in.

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we can give that a go. Sometimes this app glitches out,

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Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm watching. They bye down there hear me.

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okay. Thank you.

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appreciate that. Well, while we get Thank and look at

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give it a go. Go ahead and close out with the app and

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reenter it.

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after we are,

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Oh hello. Having trouble hearing. Oh

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that's a problem. I yeah. I really do think

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just close out the app entirely.

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I can now

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care now Can we hear you?

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hear you. I have

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brilliant. Hi.

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It just funny. Hey. Great.

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we did that with you what happens

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I am saying sorry. I you for my.

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No. What happens, we bring two our audience into a

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tech based room. Like although, i like to think we're clever enough that we can work

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the most rudimentary of technology.

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Yeah. The fact that you introduced me as a digital producer and now put

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be the shame. So I I could make this lot

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No. No.

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Now all tech is the same. I have to tell people that just because I do

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web design does not mean I can digitally produce things or you know what I mean?

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Exactly. And I'm

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photoshop and I are mortal enemies.

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completely, like,

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my partner always says, can you just fix my Tv and I might know Can't

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I'm technical rating. Me in an off

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Time and asked me to digitize something, and I'm completely for. So

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right. Which lucie ...I so

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I think I mentioned earlier. Did you happen to get round to the protestant manner for there are

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ties earlier this week.

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I did, indeed, and I actually went today

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which has been a fantastic say because in the Uk, it's

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I know it's not normal for us to have amazing weather. But today, it has been so beautiful

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full. So just to give keeping a bit of an idea,

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about once then, I I just love that. I I definitely admires you that popping up.

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No. They're great. Right?

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give me lots of love that then and

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I'm I'm taking from that of people know but I'm talking about, but

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just in case you haven't heard of it, it's such a special pace

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It's like a fairy tale french chat in the middle loads.

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of Buckingham, which is a gorgeous county outside of London.

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And so it's just slap bang in the middle of Ielts, and

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Yeah. It it's it's beautiful that was built in the image of these beautiful great

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sixteenth century shadow existing in the Law, Valley, area

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Baron Ferdinand Ross in the late nineteenth century. So

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it's really special. And the fact that the archive is

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situated on the estate as well and still continues ox

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patch edge with the current lord rough child. It's just

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extremely special and unique.

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Yes. Yes. Yes. And I think you've even rented out for as

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wedding venue, if you're feeling rather posh, like,

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And

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you

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I don't even wanna know how much that would cost.

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Yeah. Like, I know it would pass

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year. I I'm not gonna mention it. Better with the past year,

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Of course, things have gone top Therapy, and I I don't really

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know what's happening with the wedding scene, but I think sadly be some weddings pots be push back

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Oh,

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of course. But what I've seen on Instagram we

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to me They even had their Instagram channel of the weddings at the very at once, so you should

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Right.

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away pretty pictures.

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Yes. I know who doesn't love. I could in spell why. I mean,

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Absolutely. With Covid, I from just does believe in like, anyone I know

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one hundred

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I'm like, you're not gonna marry the year right? Like, you're gonna put it off a bit longer. Like, it's okay.

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we all this bad. No. I think that's brilliant I also wanna it. I love anything that i'm rough

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child like, what an interesting family. Like, I just fascinating collection

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like, all across those people who don't know give the Ross child

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quick look on Wikipedia. They really are just a

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fascinating. Let me see if I can find it for you all and put it into the fortune cookie.

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they're a really fascinating family who have just been collecting

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for years and years and years, I mean, generational wealth.

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It's so cool.

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here we are.

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extreme. Yes. Completely. And you should go into the websites as well at what's

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I.

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which I actually used to wear at it once upon a time. So please look

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my exhibitions are still up there.

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on the collections puff website, but it it's

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search to treasure tribe, And actually, it was a weekend party how

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in the eighteen seventies. So you had really exclusive guests like,

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queen Victoria coming and visiting and

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And ...yeah, it's fantastic because you walk ground, you have these

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basically, from the outside, it's it's micro sixteenth twelve, fifteen and six

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century French chat, taken to

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architectural devices from all around France. But as soon as you go in, it's

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recreated to be, like an eighteenth century Person townhouse.

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But with a with a bit of a British

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twist conforming to different

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Yes.

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etiquette and behaviors and that sort of things. So we had sort of

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stripped wiser as you walk crown, which are sort of

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the panel extracted from these beautiful cuisine townhouse

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in the eighteenth century and as we've transparent into this

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beautiful house. But then also, he he was very aware ferdinand

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that he wants to showcase is beautiful.

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action. So everything is conforming and accommodating his collection. So

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beautiful large g you walk down the east wing, for instance, and that sort of thing.

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Yes. Absolutely. I

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I love it. I love everything. I love everything I'm about the laws in manner. Do. I think it's just

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such a treasure trove. For those of you who want to see what

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Vicki is talking about. I'm gonna pop that into the fortune cookie here.

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it is a magnificent estate, and I would definitely recommend you

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if you do find yourself traveling, safely, of course,

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to the Uk, go to watch manner. It just worth your time.

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I think

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it just ...it's one of those things we get. So lucky and so spoiled as our historians to be like, oh, yeah. We

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we went to this, like, treasure trove of this place and this said, and we got to see these beautiful pieces and

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not everything is always.

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sort of

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mm-mm

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links if you will, when you go on to these travel sites and stuff like that,

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But that means said, I'm gonna take us into a contemporary

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sense, if you will, which is actually quite ironic because it

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did not start out contemporary, is the British library has to be

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five far my go to for any archive, whether it's digital or physical,

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I love it. I I'm gonna obsessed the british library. It's smack dab in the middle of

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and I feel like that's where you go for everything you need.

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Oh, completely. I love the British library, and you're touching on straight

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way, which is a talk

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I'm very closely as you know right now. And and, basically, I'm making

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an online image library

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because I love the British libraries one so much. I really want to

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No. It is. It's

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it's just tiring. It's absolutely inspiring, and I totally understand why you're drawing inspiration

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It does a masterpiece in itself. What I love is I didn't realize I told just

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like I started watching For, and I was doing some digging, then I didn't know know the british library was actually, like,

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kind of a brain of

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King George, the third. I have no idea the dot

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kinda where the collection originated from that he had this public work

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that he wanted to share with academics and other people in society

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so he's just was like, yeah. Just

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talk all the books in a place. Like, that'll be fine. That's alright. That'll told do. So that's

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Oh had no idea that's

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that that was the origin of

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Really. It's

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like me. So my mind is blown, but it makes sense.

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they don't. I know. I love I love so much.

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isn't very British. And it's like I had the modern just kinda got part with they and gave away.

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But it's it is the purchase library. Absolutely funny. Like I said, it's in Central London.

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right here, actually, I always better it's seat pinterest

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station, aka a King's cross,

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and it is really, really fun. It's

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just

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incredible resource. You can get little snacks there. They have a cafe.

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Again, you could go into the reading rooms where you can access all

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things a really, really important information. You can do

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talking in there. You can ...I ...it literally, it an endless resource end

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their gift shop is not something to be swapped on. Like, absolutely. Some of the

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skip I've gotten for family has been in their buck shop.

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I think that you know, this is such a good segue onto the Band, that

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Yes.

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shop because we were talking about this other day. That gift shop is incredible. So

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Yay for the guest shops.

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I is though. And I do ...that being said, I

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deeply love the Albert archive as well too. It is

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one

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mm-mm.

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the most beautiful place you could ever just sit in and look at, like, I just

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you I could sit there. I could just sit there and work and be happy as a claim. I wouldn't need to, like, get into the arc

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lives. But he do think

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they are an incredible resource, especially for, like, drawings and marks on paper.

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So

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one hundred percent. And I was talking about this today actually with a colleague that

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the Van is very special in itself because

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you you don't just have the ...this incredible resource of an archives, but also, you have

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the fabric of these house of historic

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setting so you can walk into these period rooms, which are about

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actually really rare to have a new Uk. I suppose because we have some many historic houses, but

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I know the matt has beautiful examples of period rooms.

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where you can see everything in context like these objects living in breathing, and and you can actually

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place them at the student and and land from them.

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But this is something the Dna does with

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with a few of that pieces, and then when you compare

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your knowledge of how these objects are being used in the furniture and the silver

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and then you

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go to the archive. They have an amazing amount of

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prints and drawings, which are just so

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so incredible, and and extremely unique. And I I think

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not everything is indexed even. So we have lots of Phd students., like,

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you know, gathering to try and get in that to to start a ph

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and and really uncover some

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some light on all of these untapped resources.

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Yes. Absolutely. Idea. I'll

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I love ...I love there. I think the be a cafe is actually my

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Yep.

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go to when I'm in London and I wanna buy ...like, I just ...I love their food. It's

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so lovely. But it is ...and ...absolutely was. I think the archives themselves are just

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so rich and so vast, and I would love to see you, like,

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I would love it do we know anybody can ...anyone in the audience all

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you know anyone who is willing to write up book can then they need to write a book.

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on the Archives and, like, the contents of this collection because it is

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mm-mm.

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overwhelming. It is so cool, and there's just so much that need to be talking

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about with it. My favorite is I just

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Hi, personally. I don't know like you is getting my extra degree. That was my go to spot.

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Yeah.

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to, like, kinda of research and work and things and mostly because literally

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right down the stair while, you can go into the cafe. Have a bite you have a coffee and then go

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to work immediately as so as they freeze.

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Mhmm.

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It got

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It's pretty ideal for guys to that.

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It absolutely to be perfect. No. You'll rice and

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And as a grad student, you are ...you are very aware of

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time to, you know, gather as much inspiration

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Yes.

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from what's around you and what's free as well. A student, and the Dna

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one fantastic, and the British library as well going back to to your first point because

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you have ...so so much accessibility with with these resources, and I think this is

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The main thing really

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And, well, I'm gonna talk about with my other examples that

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I think accessibility is really k.

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to to to encourage not just sort of

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young emerging scholars, but everyone who is interested in some capacity

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key to to get involved and become engaged. Like, the Dna has been

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credible silver collection.

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ulcerative of prints and drawings and

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at a moment, I think that some of these are being used for ...I wanna say system some

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be students. I had one of them near the day. We

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bring on at Co, different interns.

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from from different institutions. And one of my interns did say that

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they're finding it just it's such a an incredible resource.

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especially for the so that interest round service

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Yes.

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mess in the eighteenth century. So it's just so varied to my birth in a eclectic.

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fantastic.

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It is ...I mean, that being said to anyone who

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like, I personally am not huge silver person, but I have to stop every time

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I'm in the Via this over section because it is just breathtaking.

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I mean, absolutely breathtaking examples of silver works, And I am

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totally bored by that stuff, which is, I think, slightly hysterical because I could go on and on and on about

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That has to directly link

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porcelain, but put gonna a room silver, and I'm like, oh, whatever I'll take and have

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now, like, leaving aloud.

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Yes.

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you know, i has to dora think one hundred

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I I know. I I love me

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Yeah.

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Love bit of course i'm, but I think you touch on a really good point.

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of accessibility. And I think that's why your work with Ko has been so inspiring and

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lovely is because you are working to digitize and how can the foundation

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make this accessible to people. I think I was something that we

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really struggle with and another reason why I started sort of the curious our historian with creating the

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was have no accessibility that most people don't have access us still.

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like one hundred percent, and and

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just looking at my notes because I realized I've I've completely messed up our

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I'm sorry reaching out. Okay. Shane the color.

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No. This is I we have good

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Day.

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we have great panther. I always love chatting with you. We

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into the weird. Is like little side notes

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Bless.

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Yeah.

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I love it. I love this as well. I love talking on Fireside already.

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because I feel like I on an episode of friends with baby. Yeah

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Yes. I know the sound effects are really exactly

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and thank you, guys. I gonna talking about there you go.

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having so much fun.

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So, yes, going back to and

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a pilot project at the Ko, just to give a bit of context

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I started working at Colin in November. I did work

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Yes.

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Once. Hence why. It is the one of my favorite places.

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but I need to Toscano And

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I think ...I ...for just the people who don't know it

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a beautiful gallery in London and Saint James says, but it's

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extremely prestigious and and old is extremely historic. And

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The co archive is actually one of the most important

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dealer archives in the world, and I know that's quite a big statement and

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I think

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an element is because it's one of the very few still remaining and private

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hands, Whereas the archives are at and

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and Nerd and, they're all at the national gallery and the Get research

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institutes. They've all been taken over by institutions, whereas we still have hours

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and

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So at the moment, it's being held actually on the Ross

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state at Watson manner, which is really nice for me. It means I can go back

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and it's being housed in a really fresh lovely

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face. So I think that this is also another good conversation to have about archives that

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there's often a connotation that you're gonna be stuck in a

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in a damp dark room going through primary sources of like, old manuscript.

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or there's a very other extreme connotation that

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you know, you're right to wipe out with the money, money or something.

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Yes yes.

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It is

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I I couldn't really like that. Even though I sort of what it was that

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and

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Oh,

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would that be great? But ...yeah. I feel like

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the housing and the setting is extremely important for using some sort of inspiration

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in with your research. And so the when hell archives

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which is where the Ko sets. If

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so beautiful. It's a really fresh space. It's a contemporary bills.

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it was built in two thousand and eleven, and I cannot remember the attack

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But, yes, it's it's a really beautiful building, and

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the inside houses, order of Lord Rust charles, contemporary collection,

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we have it's very, very open and lots of

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you lots of glass and mirrors and and that sort of things shouldn't you reflect to surf

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says and it's literally clumsy in the middle of this field.

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So as you look outside because it's all pretty much glass.

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you'll be looking for an old eighteenth century manuscript, and you'll just

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look up and need the break, and you can just see the whole of

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of buckingham share at your fingertips because we're on top of the hill. So

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I think the setting is extremely

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helpful as an arc or or working in the archives sector.

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Yes. Absolutely. I think you touched on a very good point that We

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we think of as known facts, but not many people realize this. Yes.

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I'm just a lot these archives aren't you, like, very all, like,

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the mummy, you know, with her beloved every beloved film, but it is it's

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it isn't always stuffy and dusty and gross and sort of our

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it is. It can be really modern and really definitely in there are these

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incredible resources being used to reserve these collections of these documents.

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And one of my favorites actually is the Villa Talk

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which sits out in florence is out like, right out

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script of the town.

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Florence the city of florence, I should say it's not in town. I'm not trying to

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get after four, but it is ...you take a bus out and

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it's where Bernard Darren and Mary Barnes lived, and that's why it holds actually

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of collections of a lot of their works as con and dealers.

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which is important to note as well too because things like we're talking about is sort of

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Called is one of the oldest galleries.

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in europe if I remember properly,

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Yes.

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Indeed, Indeed, yeah. Yeah.

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No. You're correct.

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And so, yeah, Absolutely. As I say, so, yeah. It is. It's important resource like the head as well

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you ...And so because of variances worked deeply with the Called,

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gallery during their types of dealers, things like the hat. And so

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that means that I do love it because, again, you're on top of a hill, and you're also, like, in the Tuscan countryside.

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and you're only allowed in if you have, like, a special request, and so you, like, kind of have to be, like,

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filtered through the gate, and you go round into this beautiful Italian

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tuscan home. And you're greeted by all these lovely little benefits on

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paintings and Q and Drink Italian works

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which ...for those of who don't know the Jargon, I'm sorry. I'm like, getting off here like this is my thing. Who love

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love me old Italian works, but it is quad means the fourteenth century Jin

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the fifteen century.

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So it's old art, basically, And it's beautiful. It's absolutely sound.

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And so you can. You can sit in this room while you're reading through these

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documents and look out onto the Tuscan countryside, and it's just night magnificent and I love it.

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And it's also owned by Harvard. So it's really, really lovely

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because most of them do speak english. My Italian is impossible. Like, it is

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Yeah.

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terrible. I can order food and I can swear, and that's about all I've got.

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And so it's it's really nice when I'm trying to, like, sort it out. Think

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Yeah.

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appreciate that. And so you have very much

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I think that's also a part of it as accessibility in this international aspect of it, which

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cool on. He has done a beautiful job. I'm sort of, like, expanding a

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across so many different countries in incontinence, and it's

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Oh,

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it's so exciting, and I love your work there, and I'm I'm so excited to see where you go with this.

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with

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You. I actually realized I've five tracks, and I didn't even

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explain what the project was, and she probably

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Oh, no. I was just saying, go on

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blame that the. I'm gonna tell everybody down in this studio that if anyone has any questions

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comments things they would like to add in, please do feel free to jump up here on

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stage, and we will be happy to discuss with you. But Thank you, please, do go ahead and

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explain. I think what you're doing is so fascinating,.

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Oh,

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Fantastic. Thank you, Well. As you know, Will

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responsible for many of the great sales of the late nineteenth and ninety twentieth century

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three. So particularly to the guilt age collector, so

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Is isabella str gardner, Henry K Fr, and Jim Buchanan, they sort of

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individuals. And

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their collections were enormously important to the development of American museums.

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So Ko really paid a

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a very important role and setting drawings and prints to some of the great

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British European and American museum. They need to be British Museum.

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And also the Matt in New York.

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So digitization, we're basically embarking upon a

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pilot projects since well since I began in November,

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to digitize all of our paintings

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print and drawing stock records. So this will be photograph photographic

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files. And when I say to graphic files, I mean, rather large

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with lots of transaction information on these envelopes such as

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shareholders when it was sold, what sale, how much to you

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subjects that sort of thing.

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and then it will have all of the information relating to that sale.

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within the envelope. So just to give a rough indication, we have

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digitized

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in the time that I've in there, seven thousand envelopes

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so quite a lot.

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Yeah.

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Oh my god. Seven thousand

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roughly, how much how many documents do you think that is?

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I would be able to tell you with my with my

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special spreadsheets out, but I i'm afraid to carmen remember but

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Yes.

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but it's a lot. It's a lot because if you're thinking you have

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Yeah.

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at least ten document per flight, and then

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within these documents, you don't just have sort of

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make boring things like, I shouldn't say, boring. Because cool everything is very vital that

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Yes.

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shipping documents. When you have to catalog of them, they become boris and and boring.

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So she be documents and business records such as that.

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but then you have the beautiful beautiful transparency and photographs

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graph and negatives, and they the treasure tribe inside.

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these are so beautiful and rich and

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and they just bring the whole thing to life. So that has been a really exciting

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part of so far.

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So we're working with a fantastic company who have the royal seal. I think that

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tell you, how how you call it the royal feel and of approval from

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Yeah

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of the royal collection, and I could not

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Yes..

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communications. I now if if we were an itunes century,

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they would be, like, given an official title or something.

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Yes.

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from deal.

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I love that.

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skills with.

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I love that so much what it be they would be the killed of all things that

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...yes for those of you who don't know, it's actually a really great

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facet of history. The French were Seth titles.

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And so they would give titles to pretty much everyone for entries thing.

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What was one of my? I think were one recently. I was one my favorites. So French King had, like, a nephew who was just

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such a pain in the buy. And he, like,

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but he needed a royal title. And so he just told them like he was, like, official, like,

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kitchen helper her router or something ludicrous, like,

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Yes.

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tony. I think, yeah. I think can't. Yes.

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the title

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always getting under foot.

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the I love the going

...

of shell K. I don't know if anyone knows of him. He's a

...

you've quite a famous as furniture maker, and he may these most beautiful useful

...

cabernet and chest drawers really dynamic from the

...

we'll see very for the beautiful with and playful really was

...

these on the new mounts with, could he like, sort of jumping out of them?

...

extremely vibrant and fun, that he was fine because he wasn't the official

...

furniture jamaica who was allowed achieved these special

...

so he be fine for you creating these amazing wax about. I need.

...

Yeah

...

Again, I mean files

...

I love it. But not being said, absolutely. I would ...this has been

...

absolutely i'll be talking to you, Vicki, I think we should definitely do kind soon.

...

I'm just looking at a time we are at, like, half past, and I just wanted to see if there's anyone who

...

comments discussions. Otherwise, I'm gonna start slowly wrapping us up here.

...

brilliant.

...

Of course. Sounds like a good idea.

...

sorry, I've left to dawn, and I don't think we've be spoken in detail about some of these archive but

...

We

...

Is there thing volume mobile the like tonight?.

...

Yeah. I as I say, happy happy to dive a little deeper to anything people are

...

curious about if not, I will definitely be posting this. I will be making this

...

session lives. You can always come back to it, and you can always dm me as well to

...

you can find me on Instagram at the curious our historian or

...

Bu art historian also on Instagram. Just

...

dm me. I'm always happy to send you links or information.

...

Vicki I believe people can find you on Instagram at Vicki Gender. Correct?

...

Spelled it.

...

That is correct. So yeah. Yep. J e

...

Yeah.

...

Yeah. I was gonna say and also, think spelled Z i k k i,

...

Yes. Strange

...

So for every old my Americans out there,

...

we would like to put these where her are case.

...

I have to pay it, and I I was

...

called or even accused other day by male of being a

...

millennial because of the way I spell my neck

...

out dare here.

...

Was like, that's probably y'all thing say.

...

Tom give you the post and get out of there. I can leave me alone.

...

yeah Yes. I did.

...

Mhmm.

...

Brilliant, I love it. Also, we can invite you on Twitter. Right? We can find you at

...

Victoria test General.

...

if I'm not mistaken,

...

Yes. Guess ...just to confuse everyone, it's

...

slightly different.

...

No. Brilliant. I was Gonna say, these are in

...

I always fall to if anyone wants to know,

...

Yes. They are. Yeah.

...

Okay. Perfect. Excellent.

...

Well, that can you say, guys? It has been a pleasure having you listen

...

and thank you everyone for being here who was here who is here still.

...

Vicki, thank you so much for doing this. As has been and

...

absolute to light, and we will have to do this again soon.

...

Indeed, it's been

...

such good fun. Thank you so much for having me.

...

Yes.

...

and key, I think next time each smart let's talk about of

...

Yes.

...

all of all of our different projects that we've got going with different arc

...

we didn't even get round to some of your research and

...

Yes.

...

and I'm doing stuff with townhouse houses and

...

and in white and that sort of thing. So ...yeah,

...

That sounds good.

...

we'll have to do that. We'll have to do a research based show soon.

...

But that mean said, thank you everyone has been lovely have a lovely day you mean I

...

wherever you are. I'm. I'm the curious our historian.

Fortune Cookie