The Future of Entertainment is Interactive

The Future of Entertainment is Interactive.

Fireside is where the world's greatest creators go to bring the audience into the story through live, interactive, virtual shows.

Request Access to Fireside

×

00:00

00:00

IN STUDIO

/

The future of entertainment is interactive.

Fireside is where the world's greatest creators go to bring the audience into the story through live, interactive, virtual shows.

Request Access to Fireside

Transcript

...

Hi, everyone. Welcome to wider worldview of podcast

...

we're the power of travel and how it to contained the world. I'm your host megan,

...

i'm a marketer by day, a passionate travel photographer and journalists when I can fit it in.

...

and a lifelong learner always

...

and I believe the power of Travel can make the world a better place.

...

join us for conversations with entrepreneurs, educators, and

...

floors and get inspired to tap into travel and get outside your comfort

...

quote unquote known for our twelfth episode today, I am

...

so excited to introduce you to follow Fireside

...

Doctor Margaret brother Ford, psychologist,

...

author, logger podcaster, and educator,

...

she's been practicing for over twenty six years. Her work has been featured in

...

post. They called you today, the got relationship blogs, stigma fighters, about after fifty,

...

my gosh. I could go on, and he reads every email

...

sent to her and response to his many as she can. She

...

just also gave her first continuing education course

...

on Phds for therapist. Oh my gosh.

...

I'm running out of brass, doctor Mark.

...

But today, she's gonna be talking to us about a topic that I am selfish

...

super obsessed with. I really love diving into the

...

brain science behind overcoming the fear of the unknown

...

and doing new and scary things.

...

like travel.

...

and I cannot wait to talk about it. Welcome back to Evan. How are you?

...

Oh, I'm great, Megan. Thank you so much.

...

five. Hey. I recognize some of the faces in the studio. So

...

nice to see y'all and well, I have to say, I'm, you know,

...

I have an anxiety he disorder. I was diagnosed with a pant with panic attacks.

...

when I was in my mid to late twenties. So

...

I am very well acquainted with

...

fears and anxieties. And actually, I have performance anxiety which

...

has been and interesting anymore or

...

issue to have if, the more I've blog in podcaster and

...

spoke and know being a therapist was a perfect

...

profession because I was just in a room along with people.

...

And so it's been quite the journey.

...

I can only imagine well the

...

we start? I I seriously. I'm like just self

...

officially excited to have this conversation, and I just wanna take all the golden that nuggets gets away from it.

...

so I think for the benefit of our studio audience, I'm thrilled for people to also be able to take

...

away some, you know, some golden nuggets as we say.

...

quick note before we start, if you think someone in your network would like this

...

chat. I definitely encourage you to hit that little hamburger and the bottom left

...

corner tap the globe. You can share that to any of your favorite social channels.

...

or your email, whatever you have wanna do. And additionally,

...

If anyone like to ask questions, please feel free to use the chat.

...

And if this is a little bit of a news space for you, you just hit that little react

...

button down in the bottom right hand corner, Captain emoji, and then it'll

...

prompt you to enter in some text. So feel free to do that whenever, and we'll

...

field those. But also, we will be opening up the floor at the end.

...

So without further ado, Doctor M, you have been practicing as a

...

psychologist for over twenty six years. You ...like you said, you have a wealth of knowledge

...

on the human

...

you know, psychology or human brain, especially really

...

to panic depression, professionalism,

...

anxiety. Why do you say humans fear the unknown?

...

I'm just gonna get right to it.

...

Well, let's

...

face it. I mean, back when we were trying to, you know, just

...

survive as against the dinosaurs. It was

...

you know, if if you if you knew things, if you're a

...

you know, if if you felt like you could predict

...

what was about to happen and there was a sense of comfort. But at amygdala,

...

the part of our brain that says danger that alerts us to danger

...

is going to pick up on what is not

...

normal. What is out of of our everyday experience.

...

and what is out of our basically our

...

our norms, what we know is say, what we know is secure

...

and literally having a

...

and a big load that functioned well, back then was like,

...

Oh, this is gonna keep me alive. And we still feel like that.

...

what happens with anxiety and especially with, you know,

...

sensing or seeing or hearing something

...

that we have not come into contact with before or that is alien to us.

...

can be very frightening. And, of course, sometimes,

...

our anxieties will tell if something is much more frightening that

...

really is we're much more dangerous than really is.

...

and we can go into fight flight mode, but there's also two others

...

there's fight flight

...

freeze or fold

...

And so a lot of times, when we're facing something that is

...

not known to us. We don't know whether it's friendly or unfriendly or dangerous or not

...

dangerous, then we will go into one of those modes of stress response.

...

I did not know about the other two.

...

Oh, yeah.

...

fold and freeze.

...

Yeah. Yeah. In fact,

...

in reality, most of us think, oh, well, if

...

you know, it's ...you know, we do these heroic things, and we would fight something

...

a lot of us especially when there's abuse or some or

...

trauma or chronic neglect or something like

...

that we do not go into fight mode or flight mode.

...

most so much the time we freeze.

...

and that way, you know, and we have a lot of shame about that. We think we

...

show the thought. We should've have, you know, been her more heroic

...

But really think about it? A lot of times,

...

freezing is the best

...

defense. I mean, you know, if you stand very still,

...

or you you ...and, you know ...and and you have some cover then you're safer,

...

then if you sometimes fight something that's bigger than you or flee,

...

which is attention getting and then full is not so

...

so great because that literally means you sort of zip

...

and you lose your sense of what you should do and you

...

you the emotion is the best term I think I can use

...

and and it's actually makes you extremely passive and it's

...

a lot of times, people will will blame themselves to that.

...

too, it's a little more taking

...

even freezing is probably not as shame inducing as

...

folding. And, you know, I would say that all of these are normal

...

Mhmm.

...

stress responses. We've just ......you know, our culture has a dot

...

did. Well, one is superior to the other one, but not necessarily.

...

I think, you know, that is such an interesting

...

that's where our culture has adapted because

...

as we read these articles about our cortisol levels being

...

super heightened because it we're, you know, our evolution has

...

create we go from these pill, very primitive fight

...

flight fold

...

Mhmm.

...

freeze responses. And now in our current day, those are, like, not

...

appropriate anymore. And so, you know, here, you say adapt, I think it's it's really

...

a good way to put it. And so

...

going into a little bit of that unknown and

...

something that I am just so fascinated by is this

...

space. I'm gonna over generate a little bit here, but

...

you know,

...

I I feel like us as humans, we just have this aversion to try use

...

things. It's so it's it's so much easier to, like,

...

be stuck in a rut, then try something new or people don't you don't wanna

...

travel or, you know, do scary things or are unknown. So I think get all tied back to the unknown, but

...

why that ...is is it some of the adaptation of, like,

...

the responses that we had to that annoying that maybe don't

...

haven't us do any activity

...

Well, that's the interest

...

because I think it it depends on probably the world you live in. I I

...

I know that there people who are real thrill seekers and they

...

of one of my best friends has a son, and we left to say, he has no amygdala

...

That's

...

he's always doing these things that are

...

extreme, you know, and he loves it, and he gets a real high out of it. And

...

You just ...his

...

adrenaline pumping and there are other people who are

...

who are attracted to professions that have a lot of risk and

...

where there's a Adrenaline, something clicks along it's new every day. I have a nephew

...

emergency room doctor, and he chose being an emergency room doctor because he was

...

you know, you said

...

I would get so bored doing something that didn't

...

challenge me every minute of every day you're almost.

...

So I I think that I don't know exactly what world you live in Megan, but I think they're

...

there's probably a a pretty wide spectrum there.

...

of people who are very drawn to

...

tying out the things I've never tried or really want a lot of

...

Adrenaline in their world and then those

...

whether it's due to the pandemic, whether it's due

...

to they're just personalities and care character traits

...

whether it's due to the fact that they grew up in homes that

...

you know, didn't provide safety and insecurity and they that the the adaptation they have made

...

to seek that kind of safety. I don't know. There's so many

...

factors. There's some factors cultural factors,

...

even regional factors that I think are important. So

...

tell me a a little bit more about your world about these people that

...

Sure.

...

that, you know, you see or you're frustrated with or you just can't understand them why this

...

why these things scare them so much.

...

that is an excellent question, and I absolutely

...

love

...

the fact that, you know, we we are are not having this dialogue. I would

...

say that, yeah, I I do see some people out there

...

in my universe. And I do ...you're absolutely correct. It it

...

it

...

funnels me and and sort of frustrated me. It's like,

...

if you keep complaining about hating what you're doing or where you're at, like,

...

why is it so difficult to

...

do something about it or or, you know, change that your setting or behavior, but

...

I also have to put myself on this spot and say, I am absolutely one of those people

...

who

...

it can be really difficult to try new things.

...

I also have a tendency for procrastination, which

...

Mhmm.

...

I know I actually read an article of yours about perfect

...

Mhmm

...

and procrastination. So I'm sure you're gonna share a little bit about

...

So that's a little bit about it. I would say

...

It's just like this

...

I want to. But, like,

...

I don't know It's this very weird ne

...

like cloud that is

...

keeping me from doing it. And then on the other side, I do have, you know, a

...

couple people in my circle, friend, Family, who

...

they just are constantly complaining that they hate

...

Yeah.

...

what they're doing or, you know, where they're outer or things like that. But

...

Okay. Baby hates a strong word. I ...you know, that is over.

...

I there's

...

No black and white for me. I'm always like, well, could be this

...

could that. So it that's probably a pretty strong word for it. But

...

it's just like, well then why is it so difficult to, like,

...

do with the thing and, you know, do something different Or do you

...

do the thing about it.

...

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the ...I mean, you're sort of talking about

...

someone who

...

has created either. They have a job. They don't like. They have they

...

have a home they don't like because they're living in a region they don't like or a city or a a

...

style living and yet they're feeling themselves

...

non motivated to change. And

...

and and and then just sit around and and bitch ballot it. And so

...

Oh, yeah. So that's

...

gosh. That could be so many do. I mean, they could actually be going through a depression

...

which, of course, tends to

...

make make your thinking very negative. It could be about

...

a sense of less than or inferior or

...

you know, those people that kinda of wear, you know, this is not a graduate school term, but

...

have a a chip on their shoulder and nothing ever really places them.

...

Mhmm.

...

I do think the anxiety level is important because and if you've read my arsenal

...

perfectionism, you know, people who

...

need to feel like they're going to do everything that they do in their day.

...

extremely well are not gonna choose to

...

to talk to Megan about

...

still on Fireside because, you know, they they would

...

prefer, well, that not, you know, I'm not sure where that conversations going. So I rather it don't have it.

...

In fact, I think probably a lot of the people here on Fireside

...

are people who might more choose to risk a little bit because

...

Sure.

...

So

...

We're all doing this. We're all kinda of yeah. Good for y'all. Yay. Let's applaud ourselves.

...

because we're all risking and learning and being vulnerable and growing.

...

And, you know, I think that's why the community is doing as well as it is

...

because we're were very curious about one another, and we're learning and

...

and that kind of thing, but there would be some people who would this would be nasa

...

and, you know, they'd much rather

...

and and and that, it has a certain sadness to it. Yeah. I think

...

but also, you know, I remember

...

having a cousin who actually she and I were driving back from a funeral of one of our

...

friends, because a very sad event. About ten years or so ago,

...

And I asked her what she wanted to do was the next

...

decade of her life, and she kind of looked at me and she said,

...

Well, I'm gonna do what I've been doing.

...

She said I love my dollars and my grandchildren, and I'm going to

...

hang out with him. And and she said, what about you? And I said,

...

Oh, I don't know. I wanna do things I've not done.

...

So, you know, we're just different people

...

pull in that way. And and and I guess, in your in your s

...

effective travel, it would be the people that would want to go to the same place every year.

...

they they think about your tradition into it. They know what they're gonna get. They're gonna go to that

...

same clam bank or they're going to, you know, hype the same mountain or they're gonna

...

you know, they're gonna do the things They did last year and to them, that is what satisfies

...

them.

...

Sure.

...

And then other people are going to say, no. We wanna go some place new and

...

and

...

hopefully,

...

And and I don't necessarily think there's a superior and inferior way. It's

...

just we're wired differently and what we find

...

brings us fulfillment. Now what you're talking about are these people, they don't seem to

...

fulfillment anywhere, And that is truly

...

is very, very sad, I think.

...

That is so interesting. And first of all, thank you for

...

you know, opening up my her eyes in my perspectives because you're at

...

right were multi multifaceted creatures, and we have

...

a lot of different complexities, and there's a lot of different things going on

...

under the surface that we can't even see that maybe

...

attributing to those decisions or the way that people are

...

reacting to those sorts of things

...

it's totally different across the board.

...

and I love the fact that you brought up curiosity because I think that

...

curiosity and that

...

pension for

...

being, like, well, I don't know what I don't know, but that's a

...

hey. And, you know, I'm I'm willing to learn and be open minded about it.

...

I think that is something that is

...

So it's such an important

...

skill and it's very ...you know, it's like, how do you even teach

...

curiosity and to be open minded and I think it also goes hand in him with empathy. So

...

you know, you hear on Fireside, you host this amazing

...

show called what you can do about it. So

...

Yeah.

...

if those ...you there are some people out there who maybe have this

...

let's say, for me, singing myself out, and I I think that probably what have

...

a lot is that I'm very comfortable with what I know.

...

And I am a perfectionist I am.

...

and and so I get anxious about not being able to do things

...

you know, perfectly. So I choose action or

...

nation. I am just un unpack myself right here, but

...

So let's say ...perhaps there are people out there, you know, that

...

that wanted to use things are open to the idea

...

oh

...

of, like, I'd love to do something like that, like, travel.

...

But, you know, how do they get from that tricky brain space of I love to do

...

thing like that to actually

...

Sure.

...

doing it. Do you have any tips for maybe? Yeah.

...

you know, encouraging curiosity or that open minded.

...

Sure. Well, I'm a big one for

...

kind of accepting where you are. And if you're a bit skit and doing things like this,

...

you have to figure out why you want to do something. I mean,

...

what's your ...what's your reasoning? Let's say you want to be better with communicate

...

with people that you're a shy person or that you are or that, you know, again,

...

started sort of talking about travel that you want to expand your travel horizons.

...

Well, I think you have to ask yourself

...

who would I really like to be? I mean, there's a part of me that

...

maybe I feel like I have a potential that I haven't reached

...

and kind imagine yourself as you would be if you were comfortable with this,

...

if I were comfortable with other people, what would my life be like if I were

...

more comfortable with travel., you know, what would my life?

...

when where am I going? What I wanna develop in myself?

...

because if you know that,

...

If you know,

...

kind of where you're headed, then basically

...

it's it's just like any goal which you said. You say, okay. I'm headed to be

...

I wanna have five different countries on my passport or I want to

...

be able to start a dinner party with

...

five or six other friends. And once a month we'll all fix dinner and

...

well you a pot and, you know, to be Mediterranean or it'll be

...

polish food or it'll be whatever

...

And so

...

you know and that's what I want in my life. Okay. What's the next step

...

what can you do about it? What's the first very

...

first step you can make, and it could be a small one. You can, you know, you you have to

...

start small, and and then, you know, build your sense of self

...

confidence, build your sense and and maybe even

...

finding other people in your life that have the same issue

...

you want to be able to move slowly, but, you know, a

...

carefully ahead. This is what I do with almost all anxieties as a therapist.

...

I say, first, you have to accept that you have the anxiety. You're not

...

bad person because you haven't it. You're not less than because you have it.

...

you're not, you know, inferior because you have it.

...

it's just there. You have it. But if you accept it's there,

...

then you you you're not designing yourself to it. You're saying, okay.

...

I can accept it there. And I want ...this is where I'd like to head

...

what are the small steps be they for

...

fourteen, twenty four of what I can do to

...

promote the change that I want to make. And but I start small.

...

I love that. I ...yeah. I think

...

cutting things down into little tiny pieces is

...

so important. But we we forget about that.

...

and I love the idea of having a North star as sort of this goal because

...

I can't tell you how many times I'm just like,

...

Yeah.

...

I just wanna do it. I don't know why.

...

I guess that I really examined it, I probably have a reason, but there's a lot of things out there that

...

I don't know. I just I would like to

...

Well, yeah. And

...

and I understand that, and and you sound like an inherently curious

...

kind of of

...

maybe even you're just very vigilant about your world and

...

and and you you're into, you know, your own growth and that kind of thing.

...

But I think for people who aren't necessarily like that, it's still

...

well, I would like to be more well read or I would like to

...

you know no matter what your goal is, whether it took

...

quieter a more zoom though.

...

you know, I think that ...you know, and I would loved

...

the feedback from the audience about how social media

...

has played into that. My son is twenty seven, and when he graduated

...

college about five years ago. He his friends were trying to

...

find something, you know, that can afford to do and

...

And as after after college, and they decided on this sort of

...

hiking and camping in in a lot of national parks, and he was

...

laughing one day. He said, you know,

...

I he said, I'm just ...and he really doesn't do much social media at all.

...

But back then, it did a bit more and he goes, you know, I I get where I'm kinda saying well,

...

that's not enough. That's not a that's not as

...

special enough thing to do. You know, I need you out to Cambodia bo. I need

...

K

...

to, you know, of the the arc or what we that

...

the whatever i whatever the the thing I'm trying to be say. But I need to do something

...

really exotic, you know, where it's not special enough, and he kind said,

...

crap to that. And I just want to

...

do something that's, you know,

...

fun for me. And

...

minute i so on?

...

You are ...Yes. You are.

...

Hello. Ken. My phone went here.

...

I'm just

...

My phone with what's my office and

...

In that,

...

So anyway, it's it's this kind of don't compare yourself with other people don't come

...

pair your goals to other people's their they're yours and there's

...

specific to you, and that's the direction you want to go.

...

you know, I watched people every day that I'm in the office.

...

say, this is something that I want to change about myself, and

...

and or, you know, I I I get

...

angry too quickly or I

...

I I don't communicate well, or I don't have any patience or

...

I'm I'm

...

I don't believe in myself enough. And so we always kinda say, can you visualize yourself?

...

as that person who you want to be, the direction which you want to go

...

and then build this scaffolding, so to speak,

...

of how you want to get there. And, you know,

...

you you can't

...

you can't build building without scaffold. You have to have something to

...

dick that keeps you organized and keeps you aligned, and and that's not

...

you know, even people who do extreme sports, I guess, They

...

they build up to that. Right? So

...

for sure.

...

Anyway, I I'm a huge fan

...

of

...

that whole idea of of visualization

...

seeing yourself

...

then setting out very

...

tangible

...

maybe some intangible, but tangible goals of how you're gonna get there.

...

Absolutely. I think, you know, you

...

that idea of visualization and actually placing yourself

...

because I feel like there's this wall of this unknown

...

Black

...

right? Like, I cannot picture myself in this situation yet.

...

and therefore, I'm afraid of it. But if you actually are able to visualize yourself in it,

...

So what you're saying is I should photoshop myself in all these pictures of, like,

...

places is that I'm scared to go to. And then let's

...

What about them i all, and then I will visualize correct out.

...

I will offer that as a service. If anybody wants to go somewhere to

...

afraid to go. I will photoshop you in a photo of.

...

That's pretty funny.

...

I love

...

I love that.

...

I love that. So might, well, this has been

...

so enlightening. I know we've got Mark up here. I want to

...

have him time in if anybody else would like to come up to the stage, you will app

...

slowly be opening up for questions. And then if we have a little bit of time

...

I do have a little section called five travel takes if we don't get there. That's okay. Because

...

Okay.

...

I love this conversation. So, Mark, welcome up to the stage.

...

Oh,

...

Thank you for having me. This is a very interesting conversation.

...

first of all, thank you for doing this, and I am very familiar

...

with risk taking risk, but also sharing risk

...

with other people. So I just wanted to ask you maybe a little bit about

...

motivated me to do this. So I started an event

...

about fifteen years ago, where the barrier to entry in order to come to the event

...

you have to be willing to die doing what you love. At least, that's we put out there.

...

Hello, and.

...

Wow.

...

And at felt ...it's back country skiing in Alaska with helicopter

...

and snow. And you can see in my photo here, I'm rescuing a snow out of a

...

us with a couple of other people. But anyhow,

...

I brought five thousand people over the course of fifteen years to basically hold their feet

...

to the fire of life experience, And I would say one hundred percent of them did that.

...

and zero percent of them died. However,

...

you know, I have this theory that it's like the closer to death you come

...

the more alive you feel maybe. And maybe that's crazy talk.

...

I'm not sure, but I just wanted to get up here and had talk you, Doctor Margaret,

...

about what motivated you to do this kind of thing.

...

Well, I I won ...I I think you probably have a very small amygdala of.

...

the content

...

you know, you're you're just that that sense of risk

...

is is very

...

appealing to you and you're actually helping people fight their own fears.

...

and the people that willing to do that in the million, which you provide

...

and the support which you provide, that's probably exactly what they need.

...

and and that appeals to them that they self select

...

I would ...I would never select being a off of any kind

...

that would not be where I would find my sense of.

...

or or my sense of courage

...

I I have my own

...

places that I think what I find my own sense of courage

...

But I I think it's wonderful that you've helped all these people and

...

And with something that, again, is going to be quite outside of most people to

...

experience. You know, what I've done.

...

frequently with people who

...

I I will ask them, for example, or the people who just

...

steer getting out of their normal. They don't wanna

...

venture outside. They they don't wanna trust themselves to do anything and

...

and we have a very wonderful theater department.

...

here at the university that we're where I live,

...

And I will say I want you to take a course and improvisation.

...

And, you know, I don't necessarily want you to be a

...

play where you learn lines all the that'd be fine. But I want you

...

to do something creative. I want you to be in a in an improv class. I want you to

...

to take an art class. I want you to, you know, and that's my background music.

...

is my black That was professional singer in my twenties. So

...

you know, I'm very aware of that world. And what it s

...

you to do and how it asks you to be vulnerable.

...

in the curtain and the kind of courage. But mark you're in a whole nother world

...

And I think that's

...

you know, I think that's fantastic.

...

Well, here's a thing though I'm scared of traffic and

...

And now that's not

...

Well,

...

we we all have the things that, you know, we look at someone else

...

doing it and think, oh my gosh. I could never do that. And then

...

But, you know, what? Again, there's that

...

don't compare yourself with others because of what you do, then I wouldn't say

...

someone well, if that's not your particular, you know, way you're going to find your

...

sense of courage or your sense of accomplishment or your potential

...

then go in another direction if there are so many directions in which to go,

...

you know? And so I I applaud you for helping all those people

...

you know, I do something where I'm asking people to go

...

inward a lot, and and that can be just as

...

jolt and and

...

and a and a courage requiring activity as a therapist,

...

when you've got someone who that's a lot of trauma in their long in their

...

actually going inward and trying to, you know, literally pull themselves out of

...

their own

...

struggles and see themselves differently than

...

you know, that's its own kind of

...

that's his own kind of journey and it's own kind of of

...

requirement. It takes a lot of courage in a lot of

...

persistence.

...

So, you know, I'm I'm just in ...you're you're asking people to

...

you know, go into this

...

world that they've never known this physical and takes a lot of courage in that way.

...

What

...

my job is to help people go inward and to do that same kind of travel. But

...

it.

...

I mean, one one like, small point to add to this, which is like,

...

I don't actually see this is like, I mean, it is risky. I know that I could die or whatever.

...

But, by ...because I'm taking a series of baby steps,

...

I'm never, like weeping over the cas9, so to speak literally or or metaphorically,

...

Right

...

I'm like, trying to just take, like, a one little baby step forward

...

could do something a little more challenging a little harder

...

and something a little bit more outside of my comfort zone, but I never feel like I'm just like,

...

rolling it into the wind to see what's gonna happen. It's all calculated.

...

But by the way,

...

Yeah. Well, and and that pod makes you a wonderful teacher.

...

as well. So because you you are already

...

monitoring and mod yourself and say, I'm not gonna do something stupid.

...

And yet so that's, you know, you can see that in other people and say, know you're

...

you know, this is a better step for you to take here rather than

...

you know, I'll never forget, I I was on ...I was in Colorado. I think it was in ask

...

and it was a very, very, been very, very dusty and dry.

...

and I stupidly went up on a hike by myself.

...

I'm not a huge hike I'd like to hike, but I really wanted to do this hike

...

and I came down and I was slipping and it was

...

it was terrible. I I ...I'm mean, ...I'm also afraid of height, so that was kind interesting.

...

But

...

but I was coming down, and I I was petrified

...

but I heard somebody coming up to trail that was

...

crying and saying to her friend, I can't do it. You go on. I'll just

...

says you're in wait for you. And so I went down the

...

paths a little bit, and I looked at her and said, I'll take you down.

...

and there was something about me taking her down that gave me the courage that I could say

...

put your foot here, but you it kinda like what you're saying, Mark, I could

...

I could show her small steps of how to get down and that's how I found my own courage.

...

like, teaching somebody. I ...so what I'm hearing is

...

black it out in baby steps, put your builds on, don't compare yourself to other

...

people and potentially teach other people about it, and that will help you as well.

...

Yeah. I think so would you say that Mark?

...

Yeah. I mean, ...you know? I I think it's all about, like,

...

assessing the risk before you take it on and there's foolish risk

...

gun there's calculated risk. And so I'm all for calculated risk and all against

...

awful

...

That's. There you go.

...

tip.

...

Thank you so much, Mark that I love this conversation. So my

...

We are gonna keep an eye on time Ariel. Welcome to the stage and then we have

...

troy.

...

Right. Yeah.

...

I just wanted to say Mark, you mentioned Los Angeles. Oh, he's

...

down there. Okay. I I I was just saying that traffic in Los Angeles isn't scary. It's

...

just annoying. You know, you know, it's

...

funny. I went to Auckland. They called the city of sales

...

but I call La with its traffic city of snails.

...

So he just ...he just mentioned La. So is a native. I just wanted to

...

let him know that

...

I love Vaglio.

...

area. It's it's something. And and actually, I'm very excited to be

...

closer to it and explore it. Ariel, did you have a question for Doctor Margaret?

...

Hi, Ariel.

...

Oh, i hi, Mark. I I just

...

I just wanted to explain that part to Mark.

...

Yes. Oh, of course. Not a problem. I do not mean to put you on this

...

Okay.

...

But thank you so much for coming up here and for being an the audience,

...

for sure.

...

have

...

The troy, welcome to the stage.. How are you?

...

I I am great good to see you making you see margaret of

...

yeah. My question is

...

Margaret, do you think size and stature

...

of a person.

...

has a lot to do with questionnaire fear

...

we traveling walking around where we go. You know, I used to be a very tiny person and

...

and a very big person now, you know as I grew older. And I think, like, my fear

...

of life by fear of the outside world changed drastically when I grew

...

these major growth sports who throughout my development as a child.

...

so I just wanna to throw it out there. One we to take.

...

Wow. Well, I mean,

...

That's such an and it it really makes me think about just

...

you know, again, sort of our cultural references to that,

...

and that we tend to think bigger is better and bigger

...

stronger and bigger is. And so, you know, I I think probably

...

you would

...

you would

...

have bought into that idea.

...

and and maybe maybe even in the family or the culture, you grew up in, they

...

say, oh, you're getting stronger you're getting. So there's a lot of of support

...

for that.

...

I I had a patience who's literally, I'm short on five four.

...

but she was like,

...

barely five feet tall. And she said that people use

...

to pattern on the head and just the

...

just make her so mad, and she took

...

a ...she took a not a, but it's one of the

...

the karate kinds of courses

...

and she got a black belt in it, and you did not wanna cross her. Right?

...

And so she obviously didn't have the ability to get any

...

to get physically bigger, but she made herself so much

...

stronger and fierce in our own mind. So

...

I I think probably

...

I was ...Lewis House who's a great big

...

pro football player. I've had me on his show couple at a year and a half ago.

...

and, you know, he's huge and

...

Never ...yeah. He's really great. He's Not

...

What a show? Oh my gosh. Just

...

Well,

...

sorry. Casually just heavily. It's

...

I love that podcast.

...

No. I mean, you know, I I was shocked actually that

...

miss his producer had read my book and like it he

...

Amazing.

...

what I got when I walked in the studio, he goes I haven't read your book, but this producer said, I have

...

That's amazing.

...

okay. But anyway, I remember

...

standing by him. And he ...and he's just ...he just

...

you know, he was so big, and I in my

...

caption when I ...when I put the picture on Instagram was

...

you know, you're only as ...you're only as small as you think you are. So

...

you know? So I just think that

...

it's so interesting joy that you would have that kind of

...

experience that I would ...I think, probably, again,

...

in certain worlds, that would be true in other worlds that that might not be. I've

...

another culture. I I don't know. I would love to hear from people from other cultures.

...

Yeah. And thank you for answering because, like

...

a therapist myself and, like, you know, of course, I still

...

diagnose myself. You're trying to, like,

...

to these quadrants Now what's going on with me and my own person development? So

...

you know, I just thought I like to throw questions out to other people in in different fields and just say, hey,

...

What is this ...wait ...does this make sense to you? Or am I just out the woods

...

Oh,

...

some wear loss. So ...but thank you very much. And and I I think the cultural aspect has a lot to do and also

...

so really appreciate your

...

Absolutely.

...

Of course, Of course,

...

And how in the heck are you getting older and getting bigger?

...

I mean, I'm I ...they're things in in me that are

...

I keep getting shorter, and then, yeah. I don't know. That's amazing.

...

or even that

...

No ...No. What what really happened I've meant like, a win

...

to a period in my life.

...

when I was very, very tiny.

...

went through these major growth sports to our high school in college.

...

Oh,

...

Right. Okay. It's

...

Like, I entered college of, like,

...

six two

...

like, a hundred and some pounds a left close to two hundred thousand and

...

three or four. You know, is, like crazy green. You know? So

...

Right.

...

it paid off well unlikely ruin, but that's another story. Yeah.

...

Thank you so much Troy. I I love throwing questions out there. And, you know, this is

...

were a community of curious people. So absolutely. Welcome it.

...

Thank you for for that. John, welcome to the stage. You have

...

question for protector, and we are gonna wrap it up. So if anybody has some final thoughts

...

Yeah.

...

let us know.

...

Hi, Megan Thanks for having me. I'll make this pretty quick. Margaret out curiosity

...

Oh,

...

so earlier on you're talking about how a lot of us tend to

...

get in that rut. Right? You can just get in that routine as kinda hard to break out of it.

...

and I am definitely guilty of adam i'm work a alcoholic and these scene

...

tend to bog me down. But every time you pull me out of my come

...

zone and catapult me into something that is unexpected.

...

I find myself growing and becoming a better person for it. Now.

...

Eight.

...

My question directly is do you have any suggestions for

...

people like myself, who tend to get stuck in that rut a way to maybe be a little bit

...

more cognizant that we are in a rotten, maybe had a catapult

...

ourselves out of it as opposed to

...

Where

...

you know, waiting for for somebody else to book a camping trip or some

...

Yeah. Well, I think you're talking about sort of this proactive stance and

...

and being aware

...

of

...

wait a minute. Am I ...am I burning out? Am I

...

do I ...if I'm losing motivation to do what has brought me,

...

maybe join the past film in the past, but it is not

...

anymore. And and and yet, I'm doing it

...

so I can get a certain salary. I'm doing it because it

...

you know, it it is ...I I'm trying to prove something wrong from my past, maybe

...

I'm my mother or father spring debbie. I'd never amounts anything, so I just keep

...

you know, being a work alcoholic and getting it done. And I think

...

asking yourself, John

...

the reason for why you're continuing to do something. I mean, doesn't it make

...

sense now or you following some rule

...

that maybe made sense when you started

...

but doesn't make any sense now.

...

A lot of the times, we get entrenched in these patterns, but

...

cause. Therefore we're fulfilling some kind of

...

we're getting a better weight the footage is we're getting triggered by something from the past.

...

that we're trying to prove wrong or we're trying to

...

deal with something that, you know, is

...

is driving our behavior that we're not aware of. And if you could become

...

more aware of that and say, wait a minute.

...

Let me see if I can take an example.

...

In fact, I I had a a ...he was a multi millionaire. I

...

have lots of people from lots of different walks of life in my practice that's

...

one of the reasons why I love practicing in a small town, but

...

he happened to me a multi millionaire, and he looks

...

me so point one day and said, I'm so sick of what I'm doing.

...

what I really wanna do is is, you know, I have all this knowledge. I think

...

was ...I'll say he was an engineer. He wasn't an engineer, but something

...

Me so what I really like to do is stop doing this.

...

and then go do something for other people, you know, give my

...

give my expertise to so and I said, why didn't you

...

and he literally looked at me and said, you know, because

...

I don't know how much money will prove to me that I've been successful.

...

because my father always said

...

I just would never ...I I was the dumb kid. I was a

...

I was the kid that wouldn't be successful. And I'm still trying to prove him wrong.

...

sadly, I will tell you that this was not a a great

...

story. He did not quit what he was doing, and he instead he divorced his

...

life who he absolutely adored. And because he was trying to

...

be stimulated by something else. So

...

he just got rid of her, and he just said, well, I love you, but I've got to have some

...

thing new and so he chose a new eyes instead of

...

going in another direction. So it's asking yourself what's underneath

...

my sense of having to do this and

...

what do I need to do to change it? What do I need to grieve? Or what do I need to

...

experience in myself so that I can

...

that I can make to change that will revitalize my life. Great question, John.

...

find that internal mode

...

This is

...

Right. Right.

...

So, selfish, these are such good nuggets.

...

John, that was an excellent question. Thank you. And doctor, I I love that in

...

is kind of investigating and becoming self aware, I think,

...

Yeah.

...

that is so hard to do, But

...

certainly can be a good tool for overcoming

...

Sure.

...

new and scary things. K. Hi. Welcome to the

...

stage. We I I keep very up up. We keep having this amazing questions. So

...

I I would love to ...we'll just keep up going.

...

Kate Hi.

...

Hi.

...

Okay.

...

I thank you very much and enjoying this conversation, and there's so much

...

wisdom and insight here.

...

I did wanna go back to the social media

...

Alright.

...

conversation because we know that social media isn't going to go

...

away any time.

...

in the near future. And then from my perspective,

...

you know, social media has jim democrat a lot of things

...

I I know you brought up the travel example with your son. So

...

you know, it's allowed people to access information let's say about

...

trails that they wouldn't have had otherwise or these

...

kind of hidden nuggets around the world, which now they can look into and

...

to if if they so desire, and we see this across

...

other industries as well. I know one Ted talk, There's a lot of talk about mental health, which helps

...

to raise awareness for individuals so they can then go and seek professional help.

...

so I'm curious to know Doctor Margaret, where is the

...

fine line where individuals can be in

...

fired and connected and push themselves. I would

...

say to to do the scary stuff right?

...

reach out their comfort zone to behavior that becomes

...

harmful. What are some of maybe those indicators

...

to to help people be aware of that tipping point.

...

Sure. Okay. So what you're saying is

...

is what's the line between something that is

...

self instructive or self

...

brings a lot of self satisfaction self of fulfillment

...

And when does that turn self destructive? Would that be a way of saying your question?

...

Yeah. I can buy en captures it perfectly.

...

Okay.

...

self destructive as wow.

...

Okay.

...

I think

...

some of that is

...

Again, I'm gotta go back to

...

your understanding of what what it is doing for you.

...

you know,

...

I I just wrote a book, for example,

...

And well, no, let's not say that. Let's let's say that ...when I started blogging, I

...

started blogging, like, ten years ago. And

...

you know as a therapist, you really don't know what the other

...

that ...what other people are doing and why they're doing with

...

what they're doing with your patience unless you work in the clinic. But frequently, it's it's not a

...

a a a profession where there there can be a lot of comparison with others. Right?

...

And all of a sudden, I started this blog

...

And so I would see, you know, how

...

the blog done, and then I was in some organizations of other bloggers.

...

and I started becoming aware of what

...

other kinds of attention and followers

...

other blogs were getting or had.

...

And what I noticed in myself,

...

frankly, was something I didn't like, which was

...

the joy of writing and what I was doing and how I was growing

...

as a rider and as a communicator, hopefully,

...

was being

...

was being overshadowed

...

by my sense of how was I doing?

...

you know, how did I compare with

...

of what other, you know,? And I I I I

...

did not let myself reading thing that other psychologists were doing because I really wanted my own voice

...

to be true. But I got into this comparison, and so for me,

...

I realized wait. Wait Wait. Wait. Wait. This is not getting healthy for

...

This is bringing out something in me that I don't like

...

it's it's robbing it of my sense of fulfillment

...

you know, John brought up the topic of of

...

kind of going Is that internal motivation?

...

I would say these answers are often in

...

I mean, how many times have we watched movies where

...

someone made

...

the they began to recognize in themselves that they were doing something

...

quote unquote for the wrong reason. They were doing something for a reason

...

and or a motivation that

...

turned empty was empty was

...

was about, you know, things that really didn't have meaning. And so

...

I would think the line Kate would be, you know,

...

when your the motivation for doing it is no longer

...

fulfilling to you and and yet you keep doing it or you're

...

and it becomes self destructive. Now, what is

...

self destructive for each one of us, probably is very different.

...

all those ...we would probably share, you know, greed

...

Malice,

...

doing other people harm or wishing them not

...

you know, wishing will ...some of those things are

...

probably culturally. We could all

...

say, yeah, Those are things that are self destructive if your heart begins to

...

not have a pure or or lower

...

playful or whatever your sense of motivation is.

...

So that's what I think the line is. I think

...

you know, for example, I I guess, when you think of someone who's very generous,

...

and they love being generous. But all of a sudden, they want

...

to be the person in the community that is seen as being generous.

...

then that turns that into a pathology.

...

that turns that into self destructive.

...

when ...I don't wanna just be generous. I wanna be seen as being jailed.

...

is that does that make sense?

...

I ...that makes a lot of sense in kids

...

let us know in in your cat, if if that answered your question, it sounds like

...

doctor M, that there's a lot of this theme of being self aware

...

and sort of realizing your own

...

boundaries. Okay. Actually question because I have asked

...

and and it's actually ...it's interesting

...

my travel websites have turned into this. I did it for the joy of

...

sharing information, and then it it

...

clear ...you know, it quickly turned into this sort of

...

comparison saint game, and it was really hard for me and I actually put on binders and people

...

like, oh, did You x in y and z, and I'm like, no. I actually ignore it because

...

Otherwise, it takes the joy out of it for me.

...

But

...

Kate says yes. It did. So thank you.

...

Good. Good. So that that's kind a ...it's a

...

it's a very large question to ask and it's challenging, and I appreciate the challenge.

...

So

...

That's a wonderful question, Kate and I appreciate you asking it.

...

Absolutely. Well, thank you, Doctor I know we went a little bit over

...

time, but these are such wonderful questions. Thank you to everybody in the audience who's

...

here. Thank you so everybody who came up on stage and talked with doctor

...

selfish like I said, I love all of this in

...

permission, and I I love sharing it with others as well. So thank you again.

...

Doctor Margaret, you have a book out called perfectly hidden depression, and you now have a course

...

I'm facing depression that can be found on, which

...

I actually did not know about. And now I'm obsessed with, which is just

...

basically short actionable audio courses, which sounds way more

...

them, like, a long, you know, sit down, do this video, course sort of thing.

...

And so that is somewhere that we can check out your work. You have a

...

podcast called the south podcast. I have put your web

...

site in the fortune cookies. So if anybody's has been stressed

...

that they can head over there. But is there anywhere else that people you know, can find out more about

...

you your work, anything, where's the best place?

...

Yeah.

...

Well, just on my website, we just doctor and Margaret brother for com.

...

It's stopped that ...that's a very creative thing. So

...

Yeah. And then I my Fireside chats are

...

what you can do about it I'm my next one, so I think,

...

Friday morning at ten thirty, so I'd love to have you y'all there.

...

not sure we're gonna talk about you. But y'all ...y'all come back.

...

Yes. Oh my gosh. I I would love to. I absolutely love it. I thought

...

what better way to talk about doing

...

you know, scary new things. And to talk about what can you do about it?

...

give people some takeaways. So thank you again,

...

Thank you, everybody to tuning in and widening your worldview view with us hero on fires

...

guide. I'm your host megan. You can learn more about wider worldview and grab links to our previous

...

so over at w w w dot color and curiosity dot com.

...

or follows on social media.

...

and Megan not wanna take. I wanna say thank you. Making

...

Oh, my

...

an honor to be hearing in a lot of fun.

...

Oh, I I am just ...thank you for taking the time

...

has been such a a lively and enlightening discussion

...

I think you're starting to break down that sort of

...

how do we create curiosity? How we overcome this st?

...

I can't wait to put the transcript together. And actually, if you

...

there's a link in addition to doctor M's, once

...

site. There's a link to subscribe to the newsletter If you are curious trans

...

description will be posted on our website. So you can actually read all of these gold nuggets

...

you can listen to these golden and nuggets again any time on Fireside,

...

and you can also we're on social media.

...

at color dot and that curiosity.

...

Yes. Thank you. Everyone. We'll see you back here in two weeks.

...

we're gonna take a short right next week, like, keep an eye out for

...

programming, definitely follows on social media color dot and that curiosity.

...

myself, I'm over i'm moderately excited

...

I'm not just moderate kinda I'm very excited about all the things. So

...

But thank you back End. This has been an absolute pleasure and have a wonderful evening every

Fortune Cookie