And

Read.

They teach you that you can turn inward, and you can begin

to get the message of the symbols,

read other people's myths, not those of your round

because you tend to interpret

your own religion in terms of facts.

But if you read the other ones, you begin to get the message.

Myth

helps You youtube put your mind in touch

with the experience of being alive.

It tells you

what the experience

is.

This, of course, is from the great Joseph of Campbell,

and his nineteen eighty eight conversation with Bill,

and the book is called the power of Myth.

It's saying that the corporate world has gone crazy

of a storytelling

in the last ten years or so

the influence of ted and

Other such platforms has meant that

everyone is now a storytellers, and

corporations three storytelling telling us an easy way to tick off the

quote and unquote soft skills boxes as I hate and despise the terms soft skills incidentally and anyone who is in communications will tell you that.

Those are hard concrete skills,

but in a world run by spreadsheets, it's

difficult sometimes to convinced of bean counters, but I digress

anyway, storytelling

appears to be

simultaneously going through

something of a renaissance

and being squeezed and narrowed in its scope

perhaps those to phenomena

related will

invest investigate that tonight among or all the other

interesting stories where will investigate.

My name Ralph Tal. This is the creative farm.

And out here, fencing the donkey enclosure with me is Rick,

multimedia, indeed, trans,

will get to that storytellers

Coming in from Ontario. This time.

The other regular on this program.

Paul,

unfortunately, has developed a nasty cough.

So to save us the trouble of decipher,

what he was going to say, he has

he has

A promise to come back next week in the meantime, Erica,

welcome to the creative farm. Again,

Thank you, Race.

I ...it's a joy to be here. And

on the notice story telling, it it kind of hit me the other day how

how powerful ...I mean,

there's so many so many areas where, you know, or I see the power of storytelling

and and changing and shifting

ideas much of what

what's, you know,

but.

But also,

like ...so

recently, I I signed up for a

a subscription

with

a a sort of a service in in British Columbia, where I can pre buy

this from the fishing boat so that the fisherman can, you know,

they know that they've got some income coming in. And so we cook that the other without the week.

Well, no. That was actually me walking down to the missing boat. This this will be ...I we ...I'm I'm putting in an order that we that we do fish coming up. I'll tell you which week. I get to pick up my order from

from from Sc auto, which is this this organization that does this in Vc.

But right after I put in my first order

of of which I ordered some arc Char in. I got sent an email from them.

And

lo and behold, it told the story of the art.

Beauty with this

char is it's actually coming from from the art, and it's coming from

any.

Fisherman in the Arctic, and it told me the story of these two in you at Fishermen who aren't catching it by boat, that are actually catching it by snow.

And

so ...and

I have to say, like, it made my whole like, experience,

and it was my first experience ordering from them. It made it that much more joy to me because

I now know the story of the fish high five and who it's coming from

and the actual individual people

that that I'm helping to support

in in both their way of life.

In their,

you know, way of putting putting food on the tables of their own families.

Stories, of course, are about connections,

and we will get to that. But let's start

as any good storytellers, Taylor Will tell you in the best place for start, and that, of course, is at the beginning.

When did you bump your head against the dick head of

story. When did you know when your balance that this was going to be

your mission in life?

It's funny. So

I don't know that I actually knew it at this stage of the game. But

my some of my earliest memories are in fact of me sitting in front of paid things and tests in my home

as a little kid. And coming up with stories in the scenes that I saw in front of me. So

my dad originally from Hong Kong, and so he had these wonderful chests in our house with all these carving of dragons

and scenes from Hong Kong Harbor.

And and I remember just loving sit there for hours and just just craft stories of what was what was happening with within those scenes and in some of the the paintings we we've got. I remember there being one of

a known that it lived in both sweden in and Norway.

And he'd sort of creek to the farm at night and

and and and steal things

from, you know, from the kitchen window and things like that in the middle of naughty little know.

But he'd also do good, like, if there was any farm animals that were hurt he'd go and

and give them a little bit of Tlc.

So ...yeah.

So those those are actually my earliest memories in life.

Now I'm I'm actually

deflect sec, and

So

I don't think I'd ever sort of considered a career.

First published

Of effect

evan.

But it's it just didn't occur to me because I ...as someone who is disliked i I was sort of told that was something that I kind of struggled more with.

And I don't think I ever struggled with helen stories. I think it was just

kind of learning how to present those story.

In a way that

sort of, you know, you're neuro typical

world.

Would have

it was used to being given them. And so you didn't ...Enter the story to someone else's story of

you're not being able to work with stories. Right?

No. No. And I mean I I I was also, you know, incredibly fortunate in that I I had a number of people along the way sort of

teach me and show me how to sort of enter

how to present my ideas and how to

to

how how does sort of ...I guess, bill really build up my confidence in myself in in in those areas.

And

you know, including this one

wonderful

graduate student when I was an undergrad

Event sort of setting biology.

And

this woman would sit down with me once a week, and she would

show me

different tricks and waves of presenting ideas and and, like, from my map to to structure

sharing my thoughts. And

I

I think at the end of the day, she's the person that allowed me to have agree the word writer with my name,

which I'm incredibly grateful for because it would have been around that time in my life that

I I was running my own level of kids science company. And was definitely telling stories threat. Because

we'd be creating all sorts of characters

and those characters would we've used to teach kids about science and really silly and of fun ways.

And

and I remember ...because I was a biology student at the time, and I started in the co program,

but after starting my own business rather than being a member of the co program, even though I was still a student, I started higher students from the co program.

And I remember one

one of the students I hired her name is Becky,

sort of coming in and after, you know, I sort of had she did this wonderful wonderful performance with all these characters and these costumes.

And in her in her her job interview. And afterwards, when I sort of compliment her on the creativity of the whole thing and

and until they're out excited, I was never come work with us. She goes home my goodness this. She goes thank goodness. She goes, I was so nervous because because the biology part had told me how creative viewer were.

And it was funny because at that stage, I didn't even think of myself as as creative, but I think kind of hearing that from somebody else and hearing that from somebody in that professional world,

also sort started to allow me to start thinking about myself that way.

I don't know why I

the power of validation

that we had to others somehow.

And I don't know isn't to do that

as a as a story, as creative they're human beings, but

I mean, I guess, you know, in those kinda young formative of years. I I I did need that. And so ...so

as I became a biologist, I think that's all the when I professionally embraced my off as a storytellers.

So you was ...you were telling stories about science. You went ...you were a science communicator.

Yeah. So I ...in in in some different ways,

I

I started probably,

you know, in parks programs and with my first business, which was

doing science education, nature education,

But where we did stage performances

as well as,,

you know, created these

intricate stories that we we we tell

with kids, around, getting them become

sort of

just

or archaeologists and things like that and I'm covering mysteries.

And then later on,

you well really through that work. I started getting a running reel going on in my head, and it was

a running wheel for a science

five television show. And so so I mentioned it to my parents and the their reaction was, well, I don't you do that. And

and and all of a sudden, hurts me. I'm like, well, I guess I can. So I started to pitch that show.

And sort of, you know, that was my entry way into so the world of a broadcast

And I I started very much learned in the school of hard

which with doing the business.

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean,

you know, and I I know it's ...and this goes back to that whole thing of permission again.

I know originally, I kind of felt like a fraud in that world because I was the scientist entering that world as opposed to

to somebody who'd been formally trained in in the art of storytelling,

but it's funny. You know, And this is, I guess, one of those things that I've been learning as I get older

is

sometimes our differences

is actually

are actually the things that make

make us stab out and that makes,

you know, the stories that we tell so rich. And as I you know, as I now know that that whole science backgrounds

is part of what makes my stories rich.

It's part of absolutely science

science indicators are are special creatures. I think they are

a particularly wonderful breed of human

because, of course, stories are practical

educational tools.

And

information told through stories is far more memorable.

I've got a note here somewhere, twenty two times more

memorable according to one study.

In fact, so so right, one of my favorite size writers that they they ever delightful for guy events

in her delicious book transcend. If you people haven't

read it. Please go out and get it now.

But we don't just learn through stories. We are stories. Are we not?

Oh, absolutely.

It's ...i mean, that's one of the things that I teach my students now in my broadcast programs

is

how to embrace and tell their own story.

It's ...in what you're were saying about, like, you know, the remembering things

you know, an education.

It's is ...you

know, when I look around, and I'm I'm a huge nature lover. And and while I see myself as as, you know, a storytellers in other aspects other than than science education,

it it still is love of flying, but whenever I go for a walk, whenever I step outside,

I'm looking at all the different plants that are that are out there greeting me. And

I can tell you what a number of those different class are that I be based on stories that I remember from my days as a parks natural.

And because it ...because it creates a deeper connection with the minute

it it creates something that sort of teases the synapses and makes you smile.

Wow yeah. Brains, and I'm quoting from Ga again, our brains have evolved

to understand the world through narrative.

We'll have to drag guy out here on the creative farm sometimes soon.

This idea of

understanding facts

effects as a list of facts.

As being a very poor way to learn

as opposed to

when a list of facts

is activated.

Through in the language processing areas of the brain.

It is truly a

powerful tool

to gender understanding

of not just natural phenomena, but

of pretty much anything.

You ...yeah. Well, as a scientist. I'd have to say there like, if you're teaching science of facts, then you're probably not teaching science properly.

Just because science dynamic, most of like, a good chunk of what we know in that space

are

educated guesses rather facts.

Well, it's it's a working progress. It always has been. Well, this is this is this is just it. And I think that that

like, I honestly think it's that that kind of world that understanding of science, but also

sort of translates

so well into the world. The story telling.

...and and and and and in the world the story telling in this digital age too because

you know, as I approach,

you know, telling a story, I'm not approaching telling a story from a series of rules

that I've been taught that this is what I have to do as a storytellers.

I'm approaching it from

you know, kind of a a space of experimentation,

a space of,

especially in the digital space of allowing for

for

the dynamic elements

of

of

of what happens when you interact. What happens when yes out there. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, even like right now,

you would have come to

organizing yourself for today with

with with a bit of a shape of the things that you might want to ask me or that you ...that,

you know, it's with quotes that you you wanted to lead into different thoughts and different conversations,

but you didn't know what was gonna come come out of my now.

Even even though wonderful thing.

Well, and then the beauty because, like, you listen, and then you respond and and

and the shape changes

because Well, this is this is

calm conversation as opposed to a as opposed to my.

You know?

But it it it's

it's part of the beauty of it.

Yes. Yes. Indeed,

Welcome ...we'd

love to. We'd love to hear what you've got to to throw into the pot tonight.

Throwing things into the pot.

I don't wanna go.

Here comes ready.

Yeah. I'm thinking about, you know, think ...listening

to the both of you in Erica,

I think you ...you've been on

talks that I've done to. So I figured I totally have to

repay the the love, and I really appreciate

this topic. And I I guess I was thinking about it in terms of ...well,

I yeah I guess, a few things. One thing was, it ...whenever I think about

storytelling

and

knowing of whatever the heck fat means.

I think

it comes back to mind. I don't know if you ever saw. What's the belief do we know?

But I thought a thousand years of ago, I watched it recently because it has so many

kid, but not that it's telling you things that's giving you

problems two ideas, and I think the one of the scientists at the very end said, you know, don't be in the no in the wonder. You know? And that's that's really it is

is taking

information

about science.

And trying it on for yourself. You could think about it in terms of a adult learning

how, you know, facts for

for perfect sake,

have absolutely no use.

But if you can take something and

make it your own and test it out, like a good scientist should.

You can really make it

a living breathing

usable thing.

So there's my contribution to the part. The repeat of of of experiments, of course, is is the

the the the foundation of of the scientific method.

You know, if somebody else can do this, halfway around the world at a different hour of day and you know, on a on on a different

day of the will, it's still work

that in itself is a huge narrative. Is it not?

Oh

plugging into the great story of discovery. I I I I love that idea.

Okay. Go be my. And and if it doesn't work, the way you expected, why not? Why the hell did it know?

So it's not any. It's not a linear

thought process at all.

No. I'm sorry. And it and it's not a fairly a bad thing it doesn't work the way you thought it was going to either. It's

it's ...I mean, because ...because that once again, well, a it shift the story, which is lovely and if we're talking science, well, you're still learning something from.

It's a it always hurts me when when,

you know, people refer to, like,

a no hypothesis as a failed experiments. Because it's not failed all.

It's it's just a new discovery. It's a new direction.

The the the the word failure is to be removed from the dictionary array of intervention, I think.

Oh, I agree. It's so part of the process.

Yeah, that's a part of a wonder.

I don't wonder I wonder.

Can we use

perhaps?

Metaphor,

parallel

archetype

saying us we're talking about stories

and

to demonstrate

how

we the collectively

might heal some of the nasty divisions and troubles that

seem to continue to play us,

what place for stories in the modern world?

Yeah. So

I mean, and this is once again, this is this is part of what has really

attractive me to to Fireside chat because I think that sort of

a collective choice that's being made here is

is

stories for for social goods

stories to,

you know, look at different perspectives.

Potentially changed the conversation.

But this was ...I

mean, not scenario that when we said of embarked on our our documentary

series naturally ours.

We had a very, very simple idea and the very simplified

was

to interview different people

on

how parks in natural faces

have inspires them.

And what we kept having come out of these conversations

that we were having with different people.

Were

this beautiful

mixture

of stories of hope

that come with connection to land of stories of

even though

we had people that were from all different blocks of life and experiences

in part for the world

it was there was there was this

this ...this echoing of of connectedness and this connected your nature.

And then

you know, we we had stories to ...and

in that mix, there was, like, true through this explanation of nature, there was we were learning stories of cultural understanding too. And the beauty

for us was that

part of it hits

these little stories that we are getting hit to different communities. So

we had a

sort of a homestead

well, it was a heritage farm

farmer who started to talk about the connected of ecosystems and the carbon cycle and the flow of carbon through

through through the system.

And then we had a first nation's gentleman who talked about how

we were all indigenous to somewhere, and we all as a result had that connection to the lab that we just needed to remember it. So me had a woman whose family has been a first settlers on this island, but has originally been,

you know, kind of a

only had been previously inhabited by by first.

And

she talks about that transitioning

from

you know, we're overcoming the land to ...oh, isn't it beautiful.

And to

then, you know, sort of transitioning

to like, you know, learning paddle in the same canoe

together

as we move forward together as opposed to

sort of Ed odds with each other.

And

and for me, part of the beauty what all this two was the fact that

we could use these different stories that

that connected with different communities

to bring an invite

people to share and ideas that they might not have experienced before that might have been sort of slightly at odds

with

the way they saw the world, but because they were enjoying these stories of connectedness to nature,

it left them open to

to seeing in viewing somebody in a different way,

like,

in the case of one of our gentlemen on our first season of the series.

Was

gentlemen from Japan, and

his name was A,

and he sort of always worked in that high tech world, and then he landed on the silent and he was watching this owl on his deck.

And it shifted his focus from

from high tech to

becoming actually a felt artist, and,

you know, where it was So bit of a change.

Oh, it was the huge change. But

it was it tell me he made his own felt.

He did.

He did. Well, made it from the wall on the the island. Oh, and these these these creatures

that he created are as some of the most amazing felt hard I've seen, and they're so realistic.

And

But, you know, I mean, not only did it get him to look at himself in his world in his life in a different way, but it also

got,,

you know,

the other other people that were were

were

watching and learning about his his artwork they were looking at him in a different way.

And and

I think the each story that was told,

you could see things

is that you connected with.

And then there might have been a new idea. Something that that was alien to you are a different way of thinking about things.

And through the stories these people told it's sort of invited you into looking to experiencing

to seeing something in a different way.

I

spent a long time in in New zealand, and while I was there, I spent a long time

doing all matter of

documentary work

around the Marriage culture,

and

that

for belonging

is Tongue,

which literally means people of the land.

And

you know, the the running joke was that eighteen years in the place I was I was in data and at a fan of sorts.

But they had a wonderful thing

when we meet

stories meet.

And

all of a sudden, if you think about it,

you are

placed in a context of not just your own

here and now, but you being the

representative

of generations

of

people stretching back to the,

you know, to the beginning of time or what have you?

And then, however, sudden,, the perspective changes, does it not when you consider your story in the context of

it entertaining with other people's stories?

Absolutely.

I just

I had

this beautiful image that just popped up in my mind when you're mentioning them partially because I was also talking about some stories

or just previously,

that came from the the Golf Islands and Bc.

And there's this Northern Gulf Island that's called

Horn Island, and there's this beautiful book that somebody ...I I don't know the name of the author of off my head, but it's called Hammer.

And that's the story that was held there with Hammer

is it starts like way back in geological history with the first forming of the island,

but then it starts ...as you read on and through the tapes is it starts to tell the story of the people in that environment

and how the various people that then came and settled onto the island.

All impacted one another and also

changed each other's story.

So the hammer as a metaphor

of a tool

that

is passed on from generation to generation that sort of

direction was that more or less what we what they were talking about

Well, the hammer will ......yeah.

Ultimately, because

it it it sort of goes back. Will that carry back to to the the geological origins in the beginning

and the the stone on the island and the rock formation. But then, yes, as you said,

that hint

then also becomes a a tool throughout.

This is the creative farm.

I'm here

out

the back of the chicken should

with Erica Hard,

and we are discussing the power of the story

Let's

let's just switch talk a little and

get back to

the introduction

where

I mentioned this term that you use to describe what you do for living. What exactly

is a trans

storytellers,

and how does that differ from ordinary

multimedia?

Yeah. So this is a that's a term that sort of has gotten

changed in

and given many names

since it's it's it's

since since the term, term trans media. But it essentially ...it's it's a storytellers

that

tell stories to different platforms of media,

and within some of those platforms,

there's

the ability to interact with the story and through those interactions

to to ultimately to change the direction of of of the story.

These days,

the sort of the main term around trans media would probably be interactive or versus storytellers.

So so how does that work? Give us a, for instance?

So for instance, well, one of the areas where

which I've always ...I've always

rather enjoyed and found fascinating around this

of been

augmented reality games.

And so

so in in in terms of an augmented reality game,

you've got

Usually, you have. Well, this is this is ...certainly

where you have told that somehow

overlay a layer additional information

this in reality.

Okay. So so so that would be ...that that that that is augmented reality. But but in in the case of these these games.

And and I ...they're called allergies, I could be misty alternate reality or an augmented reality. I have double check on that. But ...but, yes,

the the idea with

with these particular games is

you

usually clues or left all in all different places they could be in real life. They could be

through geo catching. They could be online in different basis,

and those clues end up giving you a gateway into the game.

And as you choose to follow that gateway into the gain,

you then

will sort of input different information. It could be your phone number. Could be,

you know, your your

your email address.

You to

how do you how do you know to start in the first place? Oh, well,

i, like, i do i just walk out my front and, like, lower and behold. There is there's a whole thing I can interact with. Usually, usually, there's some sort of little hu. There's some sort of little clue out there that is designed to to capture the imagination of follow the rabbit. I can i I can I can see that time. But like more more example, please instance. Yeah. So there is the there's a big

game like this son's

pre the release of dark night. And

so so of mind steve Peters, he's the one that that's assigned it.

And

and part of how they hooked people into the game,

is they they went and they found the communities

online that were, like, hardcore core fans into those into, like, that whole world of

of

of dark night and and the comic books, and

and they started putting clues some Taser out there. And so it's it's ultimately those first people that you're catching with those that curiosity

with the what is this that I'm seeing.

And then once what's a few of those early people sort of get hooked into the game,

then it spirals?

And so more and more people, you know, become aware of the fact that that that there is a game of foot.

And

and

of some of the ways that can they can enter the game.

My friends, Steve has done this in a really cool way where, like,

he would ...I think, some dark night stuff, like, people would randomly get phone calls

that would then give them more clues in the game and, you know, even head them like, chasing down to random to different handkerchief than New York and Alright. I can I can just imagine the founding and those just like, hello.

Do not be alarmed, but I have a special a message for you.

It's like, I mean, what's going on?

This exactly it. Yeah. And

I ...Steve has always had a a little bit of a

it has he he he takes quite a liking for, like, you know, the horror, the scary for the style stuff, which does work really well with these games. I've always wanted to do one from the

the sort of bridget jones with Diary characters that I write who would be considered a trans media character Emmy Rogers,

because she's existed in the real world.

I love I mean, Mean is fabulous.

Oh, even I'm martin even saying is

fabulous.

And this is why she loves you.

Veeder ego go.

I'm in love with with the character. I'm not quite sure what to think of that.

So so we're talking. We're talking about interaction that actually happens on

you know, like, you know, at the back of your head on imagination, but there are

there are certain facilitator.

Right? There is a ...well

yeah.. Right? Yeah. So in the case of,

those those facilitator

are called, like, the puppet master.

And

on the when it's home.

Sorry.

What's in a? What's an?

Oh,,

augmented reality game.

Alright alright.

I'll I'll try to wrap my my my around around that one.

Okay. Go on. So so so here your your your etcetera in that game are are called the

they're called the puppet masters. Right? So what I've always wanted do and I haven't done this yet because because I haven't had the funding for it. But I I've I've always wanted to

create,

like, kind of like,

an international mystery

that you heard it here first, if you good access to funds, send them America's way. Yes, through. There will not be wasted.

So so I wanted to create this, like,

international mystery game with with with Emmy. And so

where Emmy and friends are trying to down and solve this international mystery

before Carmen San Diego

is sort of we we ended up having the reboot for that.

It was always ...I was always kind of pitching. You know,

you know, Emmy and a sort of a Carmen foundation goes sort of.

But

what you would do to make that game happen is you know, your co expenditures in the game and the players in the game that are trying to solve the mystery with emmy are ultimately,

you know, the public that joins and play and passing things down online and to show up at different parks or sites or festivals in the world, and they might have geo caching,

you know, actions that help them track something down or somebody at that festival that they meet up with and they they speak with.

But

to to make that happen,

you've gotta have a series of

ins instagram so friends like, around the world, but might be characters or might be real life people

or could could be, like, you know, brands or sponsors

that that have hidden things within their website that are playing and providing prizes within the game.

But ...which which just part of the fun of it. Like, I know my friend, Derek and Germany. He's he's always wanted to be the evil villain in that day.

Unfortunately, he does his evil villain Can't a little too too well.,

so

you're you get nervous. Just listening to that start

character.

One ...oh should I say z must stay in character

you're you're you're right on So the way he does that.

So ...but that's what's a beauty because that it becomes fun two for the people who are

who are helping to to drive the story because you ...because, ultimately, your team has to decide, okay. This section has become too easy. People are getting through it too fast. So they have to transition

and

figure out how do we make it harder or vice versa? So this is too hard, Nobody's is getting past this section. So

So,

maybe we should send this person out to put in an additional clue or, you know, in the counter that can put in an obstacle.

And so you mystery.

I can just say it now. For you as the the the the the group of story colors,

you're interacting and you're responding

based on what's happening in the game. And so you're having to ...the game has to be fluid..

Another really interesting storytellers totally look up in that sort of,

like, you know, highly

interactive and immersive of appearances

would be Lance Wheeler. He he like Steve, has a to doing things that are slightly

thriller or related

in in that landscape.

I just don't understand people who going for this sort of thing you the lot life is life is

is is is shall we say,

terrifying in a Well, we hear both without that that kind of entertainment, but I do understand that there's a whole whole subconscious of people who don't

This is the creative farm people and

out here driving the Fence post

at the far end of the of the the opal is

is Erica Hard with me, and we are talking about

the power of stories.

Please do pop your sort of

hat into the ring if you wish,

if you wish to to spa with us here out in the in the backpack opal,

in the meantime, in the meantime,

thing that has occurred to me, and we, you know, we've now done a handful of these programs.

And then something something of of a regular fixture for us on on the on the Monday night.

Monday European time,

we aim to get past cliches.

And

shall say inadequate mental shortcuts

on this program.

One cliche that keeps surfacing

in the context of stories is, of course, the expressions stories are universal.

Well, of course, they bloody you because otherwise, you know, what use would they be? And

and and why would they be stories in the first place? But what does that act mean what makes

stories, the idea of stories us. So how far back into

human history do we have to look to find the reasons

as to why stories well told

or even average

well told, to resonate so well,

well enough

for these thousands of people to go out and play these trans games

running around the world cities and looking for clues.

Well, if you're if you're asking, you know,

how stories became a part of

part of human civilization

and culture.

Well I ...with the ...sort of crazy cat I've got. I I I'd harbor that she's got stories running through her head all the time too.

I mean, it's it's a way of ...it's

a way of passing on knowledge.

It goes back to what we are talking about at the beginning of the

of our time today

is

is part of the importance of story is

is a way of educating

But then meaning, if you look again at my crazy cat, who all of a sudden will start start, you know, jumping sideways with their fur because she's got some sort of ...she seriously over acts imagination. She's very funny.

In that case,

she's got a story going on in her that's just simply entertaining her as would be the case when we look at things like, like,

our They,

their entertainment.

I know ...and

this is an interesting thing I've noticed over the years. I I see a chain

in the number of people that are going to

different genres of our storytelling

depending on what's happening

around the world.

So

for example,

with the character that we mentioned earlier, emmy, her her stories

tend to be silly, light, fun,

Although she can sometimes get on on her her soap box.

But as a result, we typically

will see a rise

in people seeking out her stories.

When

when things in the world get tense when people need a break when they need an escape,

that's one of the times when they turned to stories. And stories that are lighter, like, I can tell you right now, I've avoided

or ...well, I'm I'm not it's not my genre anyhow, but I've avoided

those types of stories this last year because I want things that are gonna give me a smile that are gonna relax me.

Keep going.

So

and it's

so ...yeah,

I I I think one of the things I wanted to touch on earlier to what we were talking about so the trans and interactive stories.

Is ...I

I mentioned one type that's highly immersive, but but there's other ways of telling stories that are interactive to