The Future of Entertainment is Interactive

The Future of Entertainment is Interactive.

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Transcript

...

I still don't quite know to do about this applause before we've done anything. But, hey, I'll i'll I'll welcome it.

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Good morning, Good afternoon, and

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and good evening, Although, the good evening is perhaps a little too late for our friend's stage.

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So

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if you're listening

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to the recorded version, welcome.

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Creativity

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is now mentioned,

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in the top five skills required by

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modern business so it may succeed in this

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uncertain world,

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which is all well and good,

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except there's a problem in which they're very statement with that very classification creativity is not a skill

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and creating it to the level of a skill notes.

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A complete lack of understanding of the issue

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and simplifies the life out of it.

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Writing is a skill.

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Coding software and skill sculpting a piece of marble is a skill brain surgery,

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carpenter,

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those are are skills

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creativity the soil out of which they grow.

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And

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as such, it is one of the most

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misunderstood concepts assigned join of the most frequently

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used words, not a great situation

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to help us clarify some of these concepts and shave some of these ideas.

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I've asked into the Obama global studio

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today, someone

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with

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a lot of experience in the field of,

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learning about creativity from the inside.

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And from the outside, someone who has dale deeply into the process,

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aiming to understand

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the true nature of creativity.

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Say that, rotor,

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is a piano

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composer,

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and the founder and ceo of the central foundation.

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Works with academia business and

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and the creative industries to bring about a more scientific

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and shall we say commercially applicable and artistic sensible

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definition of creativity do said.

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Welcome to.

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Hi. Hi ralph. Thank you so much for annoyed.

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Well, I couldn't wait any longer,

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because

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because

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creativity is a topic that really needs to be

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needs to be examined.

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From the mark the micro and

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and the macro perspectives.

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Because

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business needs creativity like oxygen,

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but the creative process is

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somewhere

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for forcing senior managers, it is somewhere between a opaque and terrifying

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that doesn't bode well for the future.

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Yeah.

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I think one of the issues is that it's

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it hardly use any guarantees in the end. Right? So even if you do all the right things,

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you might not come up with something that's going to prove. Bring a sort of return and investment immediately,

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and that might be one of the issues that makes everything a little harder.

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To control, which is which is actually the they they they reverse of of Drug famous

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observation that there's nothing worse than doing something that is entirely

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unnecessary or even wrong than doing it really, really well. Right? Yeah. Absolutely.

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Exactly. So if you know, so you can't make things who i was. I think you said something like ...even

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if you do the the wrong thing, in the right way, it doesn't mean that you're going to make it right in the end. Exactly.

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So we've been doing the wrong thing for too long

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hoping that it's going to just turn into the right thing,

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but there are so many

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mythical

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ideas around creativity.

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You just stated some of those creativity as a skill.

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I'm mean, You can, of course,

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train it at a skill as if it's it's were a skill, which would probably be better than not training at a tool.

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And there are certain methods.

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Everybody probably tried it once or twice, you know,

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there are methodologies

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to stimulate creative of thinking in business context also in live context,

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and for of those exercises are definitely helpful.

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The problem is that

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to know, consistency and how often you do those things because doing it only once or twice is not going to be enough. It needs to become the day to day practice,

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and then you didn't become

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better at those things. You can kind of force your brain into being in creative

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move mode by default. So when you want to be creative,

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and you can just switch it on and off consciously.

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It's sort of sort of, like,

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like, athletic fitness. It's just come to me that that the a really good color would be, you know,

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great great

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Wakes up in the morning and has a a fitness retain in order to be a great pathway.

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The the skill

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is,

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you know, everything that they do in the in the in the potential

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but

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the creativity

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is the level of fitness that is that is required

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to to perform well at that level. For what do you think? Yeah. Absolutely.

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So, you know, I mean, there are there are killer

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sentences like

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brain is a muscle. Right? So it ...just like every other muscle in our body we don't use. You lose it?

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Exactly. If you don't use it, you lose it. And

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there are there ...because you referred to the science in the beginning when you were introducing me, There are very interesting

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studies, and actually,

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with the

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emergence of

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neuro imaging technologies in the last

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twenty, thirty years.

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We've gained a lot of into how the creative process works in the brain.

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And,

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you know,

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talking to all the folks out there who

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wanna make creative is such a mythical

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thing.

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Sorry to say.

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But it's ...yeah. I mean, the the product of create might be magical, but the create would be itself, so that shouldn't be understood as magic. So you can look into people's brains while they're actors

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while they're engaging in creative activities.

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And what you see are,

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you know, the destruction of some of those lists, like left brain right? Brain,

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You know, we see that this it's it's both preakness. Absolutely. It's all rain.

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And also barbie because we process the signals from the outside world with all of our sensory.

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You know,

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with all of our senses, so visual centers, you our skin temperature,

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even what you eat has a has an impact

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on how creative

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and how productive

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how creatively

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productive,

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you can become give give us an

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for instance.

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Well okay. So

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I mean, because, again,

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I think I think we tend in the Western world but we tend to only then believe stuff if it's scientifically

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proven.

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But Good food makes you more productive and more creative,

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eating less carbs If you're not doing, you know, informative art or if you're not doing something that's ...that requires a lot of fun engagements

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that carbs are not good for you.

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And also,

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but but there's an interesting thing if you eat

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high volume

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ta out kind of chocolate.

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So if you look like, really dark stuff that doesn't even taste like chocolate.

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Oh more, it does take taste chocolate, but not more like the chocolate that way we were.

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He has exactly massive chocolate and we know it.

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It makes you concentrate so much better, so it helps you enter

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the default

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networks,

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a little

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with with some more ease,

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then then if you're just getting you a

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stop that study, not so extremely good for you

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So, you know, the stuff that your doctors tell you to eat,

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it also has an impact on your creative for

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performance.

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Not not exactly a mystery anymore. Absolutely not. There's there's another problem, and it's related. Of course, we we celebrate,

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glorify even

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achievements of, you know, star, artists and entertainer, but

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they we ...the collectively we,

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somehow treat the process of creating

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those those those

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pieces as

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performances

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with suspicion or downright

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somehow.

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So we have

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envy of painters from sell their works for thousands sums of money while, at the same time,

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discouraging artists for not having a proper job

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how is that even possible?

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Well, I don't think that we envy be actually all artists. We rather have pity with most of them unless they've made the cut

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into, you know,

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asking a certain threshold

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to make your living then.

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You get really excited because you're like, oh my god.

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I I thought this was totally useless, but the useless that you can make money with that.

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So that kind of life looks

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good to envy because you see someone who loves what they do,

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it looks like they're playing all the time.

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It looks like they're not even serious.

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Although I I would totally

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disagree with that kind of statement.

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Although they look chaotic

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that might be true in some cases.

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But some artists are the most disciplined

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people in thoughts and action you can ever meet. So I think what really

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kind of

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captures, our

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attention is much more

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our notion of believing that those people just became overnight successes.

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And they always find it easier to to grasp.

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Exactly.

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Oh, how help

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said.,

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actually, how utterly tragic

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he's mentioned creativity to people and in their heads, they get images of painters points,

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canada

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or

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kids playing

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up kindergarten,

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We don't automatically think creativity.

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Event,

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new stuff, the Internet, you know, electric costs, whatever.

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So

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all these things are related, of course, because if creativity to be taken seriously beyond the artist studio and and beyond

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the first few years of education,

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some things need to change. Right? Some some approaches some attitudes

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need to change. You have ...you have some ideas about that. I. Know I don't get with.

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I do

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this is the whole purpose was getting together get started going.

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I get really passionate along this topic

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You know, me?

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So

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I think one of the biggest biggest biggest failures of our time right now is that we still believe that knowledge and skill is going to make you,

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you know, as from the lower or middle class to the upper class or something like that or it's going to make you a valuable citizen

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show

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to call it Right? Yes. So,

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you know, there's there's this really interesting book.

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Johan johannes grand not actually really

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suggested

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to pass to read

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my thomas It's called Capital twenty foot century or something like that.

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As A hefty book. Absolutely. So ...but

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what it describes is actually,

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you know, that if you acquire

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I mean, that the the common knowledge. Right? The economically accepted

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assumption is that if you have enough knowledge, and if you have enough skill,

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you didn't make it in

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our world, which is no longer true. Absolutely no longer true. Because the distribution of who else is in such a way that it's

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not in anyone's interest to let more people pass a certain threshold.

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So if

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I mean, I'm I'm not ...this is just a scientific

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observation. So it's not necessarily only my my thinking, but it's a widely

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accepted economic notion of hour times. So I so

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when you still

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kind of insist on knowledge norwegian skill and built or your older education systems around this assumption, which is already pretty cold.

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What you do is,

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you know, you you promise people,

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if you know enough, and if you skill fully apply that, which means in the school is,

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you repeat what I show you as good as I do. Then you pass your exam you get the best note, and then you

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acquire a job.

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But and also, in the job, you know, you repeat this stuff. I show you as good as I do

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or maybe slightly better It's more efficient,

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than

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you have a career leather. You can kind of climb up too,

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which is no longer true notes. So. So it's a ...it's a

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step step store. It's not a letter anymore.

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Exactly. Well. And also, and also, you have to kind of

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know that,

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you know, alexa can repeat the knowledge.

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Approximately a thousand times faster,

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and I have all the knowledge over the world at the fingertips,

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and I have all the skill of the world had the tip of my fingers with platforms such as upwork, and, you know,

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you name it fiber. Etcetera.

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So those things became how source..

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And and and then our commodities.

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Absolutely skill it knowledge art commodities. You can outsource them. You can give them to people who can just, you know, and and I'm not

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kind of positive about this, but it's it's what it is right now. So that means to create real value

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you actually have to come up with stuff that's really original model and useful,

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which is the very definition of creativity

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right? So,

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how do you connect knowledge and skill and experience?

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In a way that that it creates value for this society

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that is

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absolutely not being looked into in our school systems.

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Which in itself is terrifying, if you if you let the terminals fall and and consider with what the world might look like in

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twenty years time when

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technologies have moved

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further than we can actually imagine, because, of course, that's how exponential growth works.

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And

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you know, we are then faced with

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issues of social unrest and and and whatever else.

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Eels many before us.

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But with it we're that same within that same conversation,

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the relationship

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between domain expertise and creativity is interesting and somewhat,

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seemingly at least,

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contradictory. And, of course, it doesn't because it's media a

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a question of development and perspective, but

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it seems

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that

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many people may have a brilliant idea in an area not directly within their expertise.

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In order to have a good consistent output of novelty,

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you really need to know what you're doing.

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So

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let's not discuss that because yes has been this has been well established and and written about

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substantially by by people who do know what they're doing.

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But my my

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question is

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why

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then

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do we have so few environments where people from

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different disciplines can inter mingle and feed each other's energy in output and

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why do we

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put a great big fat line somewhere

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you know, towards the end of primary school?

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Where be beyond that line, you start to specialize, But up until that line, you are actually learning

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teamwork and collaboration

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and that that magical exchange of ideas

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together.

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Well, so many things in one. So I think

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one of the big issues

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nowadays, maybe

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it can

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pretend

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these ...you know, the maybe maybe we can start questioning it. Or the society starts questioning. It's slowly. I am seeing for in German speaking lands,

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hey, certain

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sensitivity

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diversity issues in general.

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But the problem is

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I think our our

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especially in our Western societies. We're about to lose

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our culture of informed,

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debate.

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So if you can no longer debate,

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you cannot be really

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creative

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because

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you need a certain

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tension.

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Exactly. You need a certain hen. You need a certain

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input,

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but if it will like living in a culture where everybody just wants everything to be become honest.

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And, you know,

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if we're all debates shy,

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because we think, you know, you gender can ...I don't know, like, you can piss someone off.

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And and I have never seen

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I don't I don't know. I'm ...I'm a very

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debate loving person. You know me. Right?

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So when I ...when I consciously

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seek for

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a good discussion.

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Sometimes it even happens to me that

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people i, like, but why are you, you know, disagreeing why why we don't want this whole to go into a negative direction.

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So

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but I think it's okay for things to go into a negative direction

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to be to be critical about off. And I see a lot of

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potential actually in those kinds of discussions. None of that one of the most horrible

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conversation killers is stop being so negative.

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I'll find out stop being so negative. If you give me

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the next

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next building block for the conversation.

...

Right? Yeah. I mean, I think in school, for instance, that's the same thing. I when when when kids fine. I don't know how how it was in your times, but when we fought ...I'm mean, I'm forty. Right? So it's been a while.

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It's over thirty years now. When I was in the in the primary school, so wait wait. We're never fault.

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When we fly we would just settle all the stuff, and then, you know, we would be just playing

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the next game five minutes later. And, you know,

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as long as someone didn't really got hurt, he was all good.

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But when our kids fight and school,

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it because such a big issue now. So it's like, oh my god. We shouldn't be fighting at until. I mean, of course, not fighting in terms of, you know, with your but if you're not

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able to. There is a very interesting discussion around this, but if you're not able to cultivate a certain culture of fight,

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which is not, of course, physically harmful, anything.

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But what happens is you cultivate

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unconsciously, actually, the opposite so you start making people passive aggressive,

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and they start

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terror

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their opponents.

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On a

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level rather than on a on a, you know, more open level. So which is actually ...it it turns out that it's a little more harmful than than having a real good quiet. I dare say it's it's actually a lot more household on it, and it's a lot a lot longer lasting,

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and

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it's not particularly good

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for development of creativity?

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No. Exactly. So that was what I was going to say. So when you're brainstorming str in group,

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and people have this feeling that having a good quality

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disagreement is not

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welcome.

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Then

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you create a culture of content.

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And when everybody agrees, then

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either you get nothing done, or you get something that's really lousy.

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Oh, disaster happens.

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Exactly. There. There go challenge for to thread.

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Well. Well the the the reason

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we had this spectacular and and and and awful disaster speakers

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engineers

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agreed to agree even though some of them

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saw that that clearly their were issues

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with the design.

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So where we're taking, we're taking ever broader

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have bonus circles. And, of course, that's one of the. That's what's up it's a major delight when talking about

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creativity, but it is also one of the and the things that

...

inevitably

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turn people off

...

where it's like, oh, you just go off from wild tangent,

...

but you can't

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create

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anything new. You are. You've can't actually find

...

anything new unless you do go off and what wild tensions

...

because

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the process of creation is messy.

...

Right? It involves

...

multiple changes of direction and reversing and contradicting

...

yourself even

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the process of invention is equally messy.

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The somehow ...and

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this is this is another another

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tragic issue. This messi is often rejected out of

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a sort of a revision version of invention.

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Which is then get celebrated. You know, it's like,

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sort linear one or a at least a more orderly one where there's a brilliant idea

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followed by lots of conscientious work, which

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obviously happens, you know, in the right direction all the time and all that is of the right decisions are made.

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The inevitable shining

...

success.

...

That's that's nonsense isn't it?

...

Well, you know, there are processes that go and stop way and there are processes that go the other way. So

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if if you do all the right things old the time and your disciplined

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and you really

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have a certain, you know, goal in front of your

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in event of your

...

mind

...

of mind's vision.

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So I think

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you can really sing ...you can't make things

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in a very clean way, which is still, you know, cleaner need, which is still very, very creative.

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We got getting too much into a mess, but it doesn't mean that

...

one way or the other is is the right way. So I think

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we need to kind of also ...probably

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that's also one of the problems that brings

...

all these

...

myths into the creative process

...

is that we think there is only one creativity

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or two different kinds of creative when ...when you look into the research in the cognitive science research of

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the last, you know, twenty, thirty years,

...

they came up with this

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notion of big and small, which I think is absolutely

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old fashion. It's no longer holding true in our

...

extremely well connected school world.

...

So what they say is more or less, you know, Big is the stuff that's transformative of creativity that changes in

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practice to keep practices that changes a domain that's, you know, super

...

new and that gets copied a lot. Versus

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small,

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which is day to day creativity

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of,

...

you know,

...

not even individuals more or less,

...

which is

...

Absolutely. I'm sorry. This is I'm hoping that no way. I think the worst. I think the word you're looking for is bo.

...

Exactly

...

because we know that you we got ...that was the good at combination of many of those small seas

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you can't yes to any big type of

...

innovation. So we should ...we really have to stop making

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this whole thing look like

...

you know, there are certain types of individuals.

...

I'm sorry if you're not belonging to one of those, but if you can't do this kind of creative work that it's not going to be considered creative work, which at the end also

...

totally supports this notion of gate keeping

...

We if you wanna change a domain,

...

you know what sorts of grades you have to pass before you can even start talking, but I can tell you from the top of my head to the stories

...

where people from the left field, which to you were referring earlier,

...

have changed

...

Dogs like, also just think about someone like you on mask. Right? I mean, what is he looking in space? So

...

what is the what is he kind of ...he doesn't

...

belong to that kind of

...

domain, but or or car making. Right? But he

...

was able to definitely change industry practical

...

practices. How you say that? Yeah.

...

So

...

I think

...

we really really have a lot work to do

...

with our

...

definition

...

that calls true

...

for twenty first century when it comes to creativity.

...

This is the Bar global studio. My name Ralph And I'm I'm talking

...

say brother,

...

and we are picking apart

...

the fabric

...

of creativity and saying what threads we can actually tug that

...

if you would like to

...

join the conversation pre, please

...

tell me one of those, you know, request these,

...

and and

...

we'll drag your on to this stage.

...

So that you were talking about

...

research,

...

increasing

...

amounts of time,

...

effort and money

...

are being invested,

...

into

...

a more disciplined, shall,

...

understanding of creativity.

...

Give us a few examples of the more

...

exciting research you've seen.

...

Yeah.

...

I think one of the

...

most exciting things I've seen recently

...

was

...

this research

...

talking to people. I mean,

...

they they they put people who are considered creative,

...

You know, literature

...

people novelist,

...

musicians

...

as well as, you know,

...

scientists

...

who kind of do very

...

future joy work. So

...

so they put some of those people into an

...

Device

...

to look into what's happening in their brain when they're engaged in a creative process.

...

There's great great big loud magnetic residence. Absolutely terrible.

...

I I'm I'm always amazed that they can be you creative. Okay. Every creative that was so noisy. But then then I mind you go. But that's the crazy thing. So when they were put into those devices, and they were out to

...

start imagining a future that they are not going through that they're definitely not going experience them songs. So start thinking about a sci future of hundred two hundred, three hundred years.

...

So first thing was that those people were,

...

you know, when when he gave them this task Of thinking about a future,

...

they were immediately able to just like, as if as we would switch something on,

...

and they prefrontal cortex tags, they

...

had the center lighten up

...

and start,

...

you know, this process of thinking you about the future that they're not going to

...

experience them. So

...

versus the control group, which we're considered just, you know, day to day

...

people from brothers

...

do you know, jobs, we we would probably not consider very creative

...

in in the day to day process. So when they were putting those people in this same devices to control what was happening,

...

those people had gray difficulties

...

in activating

...

that same center

...

on purpose.

...

So

...

those ...so

...

they they call it the

...

distant imaging

...

center or something like that. After I ...that's probably not the

...

scientific great name. I'm I'm

...

I might be.

...

It's a beautiful day.

...

Thank you. So I can I can pull the paper, but

...

that would that would ...Well well we'll throw the we'll throw the

...

the the link into. Yeah. That that's really, really awesome. I think everybody needs to look into that paper. That's really, really cool. So so when they were doing the control group same realized though the cultural control group has a difficulty. Even imagine you know what's going to happen

...

a year from now. So

...

the controller group was only

...

able to activate that same center in their brain when they were either very tired, almost asleep or in the sleeves. So in their sleep, they could imagine,

...

you know, they they would report back dreams of

...

of future.

...

So the conscious faculties we're getting in the way

...

Absolutely.

...

So ...but

...

the question is

...

can you help people

...

with, for instance, like Sci storytelling

...

skills or stuff like, you know,

...

let's do this kind of eyes every day, five minutes for the next twenty five years.

...

Can you change people's

...

neuro fabric?

...

And it turns out you can. So there is a second study

...

that shows

...

the brains

...

so they ...the people were studying the brains of Long taxi cab drivers..

...

And we'll have whoever have who have famous geography skills?

...

Absolutely.

...

Extremely.,

...

well, what exactly so ...so it was a longitudinal study, and what they realized was

...

just like with people who meditate for twenty, thirty years,

...

those chat drivers

...

had

...

literally, by practicing

...

changed

...

the fabric of their brains, which is the phenomenon

...

neuro elasticity. Right? So, obviously, we can help people

...

be able to imagine a future that they're not going to experience themselves.

...

By

...

making them practice.

...

They are satisfied skills, for instance.

...

What is it good for? I mean,

...

you know, when you look into the business, you might think who cares about the next hundred. Right?

...

But our grand children me you may. Right? Okay. Yes. That will very much care. Yes. Say my dear so

...

So so ...and and it has a direct impact on our empathy skills. So therefore, I think we should all care.

...

So what we're in fact talking about is is one of

...

of the greatest meta crises

...

And while we keep coming back to here on Barbara global studio, and ed also on the creative phone,

...

one of the greatest meta crises facing humanity today, and that is

...

a grave

...

maybe not terminal yet about the grave lack of imagination.

...

So

...

to broader hours,

...

we need to broaden broaden hours. Right? We need to

...

talk to people who make their living with theirs.

...

It seems to me when need

...

to have artists,

...

creative poorest musicians actually

...

engaged,

...

in ways other than the traditional

...

with business and organizations

...

we need artists and residents, so us to grow the imagination

...

muscle

...

of the people inside those businesses and

...

organizations. Would that be a fair assumption to make?

...

Yes. I would still argue

...

that it depends on the time frame. So, you know, it's not enough to bring someone in and

...

you know, ignite

...

as far and then leave and hope that

...

that spot is going to survive. Tell I charged. I've done enough of those create anything

...

workshops to last me a lifetime. They are fantastic. They are

...

you know, inspiring people love them. It's great to get smiling faces at the end of it, and then, of course,

...

nothing happens.

...

But ...Yeah. I mean, something definitely happened, but

...

I'm I'm like to say, you know, one of the best things that happened is some of those people

...

who have engaged in your so believe they come come daily.

...

Exactly. So that's what mostly happened

...

if the pressure if the pain is so big,

...

it's no longer can can, you know, be bad.

...

But besides that,

...

you know, putting ...putting an artist into a company

...

that has

...

all

...

the industry

...

type mindset from

...

accumulation of two hundred years of stiffness,

...

and then then it's not going to be enough.

...

I mean, if you want to ...if you want to break the artist and leave them there,

...

Would needs to be faster.

...

Certainly needs it needs to be more than then an overnight stay. Yeah. Exactly and I need to be given permission to be. So

...

while there are they are in there, but, you know, the idea of artist residences is not exactly new.

...

Are you there? Yeah. I I think

...

Google has something similar. To. Yeah. What I'm hoping is is is that it will be more than than the Google of this world

...

that will actually see the value of this because the world

...

of at

...

and business touch

...

at many points, but the they're same to be

...

very few if any

...

interactions

...

beyond those that are traditionally accepted as being

...

the proper way for artists and business.

...

To be with each other. You know, paintings are bought commissions for works are

...

arranged

...

sponsorships,

...

often controversial

...

signed.

...

It's all a very narrow means of interaction.

...

That it really allows for

...

in exchange of what we at bo

...

as

...

a fundamental value that artists bring to any conversation

...

and that is thinking differently.

...

But, you know, as you were signing, two hundred years of accumulated stiffness,

...

as business really want to think differently. And then the next question, what happens to business

...

today that doesn't want to think differently.

...

Yeah. Yeah. This is a lady leading question. Yes.

...

Go. Respected, please. Oh my guys.

...

I mean, I think there are many examples of,

...

you know, businesses come up, kind of and and go

...

I think that was a

...

very interesting study that said that

...

I think it's it's a standard and poor

...

study that said,

...

the fortune five hundred companies approximately

...

what?

...

Like, sixty seven percent of those companies

...

have vanished

...

in the last

...

thirty years, and then they're expecting another ...you know, so it's it's only in transformation.

...

It's all in ...it's some meta.

...

Right? And they're speeding up because it used to take a a generation or to for a company to grow up then, you know, become big. Then become required. Don't go public go have you

...

and then to disappear. Now it takes, you know, twenty years and the very soon it'll take fifteen years,

...

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean,

...

again, coming back to the beginning of this conversation,

...

just like in the education system, you have to make sure that, you know, religion skill

...

come together, in a way, that is very

...

novel and useful

...

and creative

...

to to

...

make,

...

you know,

...

products and services

...

and innovations innovations

...

that are hopeful value to people,

...

and we now know that monetary value is also in today's world no longer enough.

...

The new generations are looking into

...

many more aspects

...

they wanna be inspired. They wanna be physically touched. They wanna be

...

environmentally

...

responsible,

...

and

...

with all these discussions around universal basic income,

...

you know,

...

we might be entering a very, very

...

interesting age if it turns out to come,

...

indeed, you know, this notion of universal basic income,

...

imagine know world well, people no longer have to work

...

because they need the money, but they just well, buddy ...five fifteen fifty years ago, saying that it was a ridiculous

...

notion that we all had to go to work in order to be able to live in order to be able to know the things that we want to do.

...

He very clearly

...

envisioned

...

a world where

...

if it's done right,

...

technology will will take over much of

...

the the home,

...

and people's time will be

...

freed up, and they will be able to use that time to, you know, in the pursuit of of of know, more interesting

...

more interesting things, of course,

...

that may not necessarily turn out to be the case.

...

Well, there is a very interest

...

experiment running right now in Germany,

...

where approximately three hundred people are being paid

...

basic

...

universal basic salary. I think it's around

...

fifteen hundred

...

Us dollars per month.

...

For the next five years,

...

and people have

...

very, very diverse different backgrounds, and I would look forward to what's going to come out of that. And I can tell you,

...

many companies. I mean, there has been a very interesting public debate around this.

...

Because those three hundred people don't have to work for the next five years, and they can still have a ...you

...

know, or they they only do work, they would like to do. So ...which

...

is a very, very interesting notion of course, if you wanna understand one, what comes out of that.

...

Well, that that goes

...

a few steps down the path of

...

of,

...

you know, finding your own.

...

What was it Can can Robinson recall finding your own element threat?

...

Where, you know, you actually figure out what it is that you are good at and what it is that you can contribute

...

then that, you know, everyone

...

contribution is

...

is different, and that is the that is the whole point.

...

You know what I find really interesting is

...

that most of the stuff

...

also so I do in my life.

...

You know, there there are things that

...

you do because you kind of

...

you need to major your living, so speak.

...

And then

...

you see that when you have a certain

...

type of community around you,

...

when you have a certain type of mindset around you,

...

then you start being extremely creative

...

and productive together.

...

And

...

money suddenly plays absolutely

...

no role

...

if you're

...

know, basic needs are covered already, and you start doing work that is really uplifting and

...

extremely

...

purposeful and and

...

enriching and full fulfilling.

...

Just like, you know what? You also know from the affiliate foundation.

...

What is interesting ...one

...

interesting thing is

...

doing creative work.

...

I mean just

...

tying

...

all of this back to science again,

...

Doing creative work is actually

...

according to one,

...

your neuroscientist found out is the reason

...

why might have such a big brain actually,

...

because even anyway, and human ...they stop stop presses,

...

stop pressures. This is like, over a major i major scientific discovery. We have the brain you know, what did you it? Yes.

...

Wanna call.

...

Well what call what did life giving me very

...

very fun

...

actually, why this came about because

...

there are ...I do just know this until I read this research but there are species that have no brain

...

from that ...Exactly.

...

So they're they're not known for for great poetry.

...

Excellence.

...

It was not they still have a perfect life. Much of their species live in the in the

...

water. So you know see stars

...

oyster,

...

certain types of

...

oh, yeah. How do you say these

...

flashing

...

beautiful looking

...

when they tattoo you, They hurt you time of animals. I can't remember the name.

...

Are there are ...you know, I'm from Australia. We have we have any number of them in any number of.

...

You know,

...

families so amazing There is this really weird animal, which is called

...

the c squid.

...

And that's animal

...

have a brain

...

until

...

it finds a place to settle in the city. And once you finds that place to settle,

...

The first thing it does is it eats its own brain.

...

Oh, that sounds like like so many people have met.

...

So maybe, I find a nice nice comfortable so fine. And it's like oh gonna need my brain anymore.

...

Exactly.

...

So so

...

you know,

...

obviously,

...

you have a brain in order to move and perform complex black

...

tasks. Right?

...

So you need your brain for the search

...

in the case of the c. And then

...

once the search is completed, you ...kind of eat your own brain because it's the most energy on some consuming audience.

...

And and humans. I mean, we share up the ninety eight percent of our genetic makeup with,

...

and the rest, the the the rest two percent is

...

All, that's about creativity. So we also want to move,

...

but, obviously, we also want to be moved.

...

And if we're not,

...

in the second half of that equation, if we're not moved and if we can't move in terms of emotionally touch,

...

each other and connects

...

and and create, you know, be curious,

...

be be

...

interesting

...

creative

...

tell stories,

...

than all of our species falls apart, and people are not

...

engaged in one way or the other in creative activities.

...

They

...

they look like you know,

...

candles set have no longer the possibility to shine. So

...

those those people,

...

get broken

...

with time, and we see it all the time. It's also economically a big big issue,

...

you know, burnout,

...

people who are disengaged,

...

people who just hate what they do,

...

people who also hate their companies

...

so they're the worst. And ambassador is, you know, you didn't imagine. Well, the statistics,

...

I just getting premise it'd be worse and worse and worse. I mean,

...

I'll be looking at this

...

for for for some years, and, you know, these studies come out every year.

...

Research organizations. They go into

...

multiple companies and they ask questions, and, you know, it used to be that that's something like

...

you know, half, the the workforce were actively quote and unquote engaged at work, then it was down to twenty five percent. And now I just read the other day that six percent

...

of people in some job if you forget, which not that it really matters,

...

six percent, of people were actively engaged in the work. So, like ...I mean, we are we are this

...

society of robots who go off and just do stuff, and then i'm really happy to be doing this stuff because we have these brains that that we would like to really like to use for other

...

other purposes.

...

But is that

...

is that merely a, you know, a fancy

...

fluffy first world problem?

...

The

...

the this engagement.

...

Yeah.

...

It might be but they and the this engagement

...

and also there

...

fast notion that, you know, we are here to fulfill ourselves and look to basically make a living and bring up our kids and and all that stuff.

...

Well, it might be.

...

That's my dog..

...

Sorry. Wait just second

...

Here's is actively

...

expressing him so far. Now. I can

...

here I think we ...we all can hear it.

...

Not.

...

I'm just wondering whether, you know,

...

sitting in our in a comfortable apartments in in in what's, you know, closely turned the west.

...

We are not

...

taking the discussion

...

in directions that are in fact

...

exclusive of those who do not

...

live in uncomfortable apartments in the worst.

...

Well, that's definitely

...

I think I think that's definitely right. So some of these issues, of course, are issues.

...

When we you sit here comfortably

...

warm, you know,

...

with a full stomach and talk about how important creativity is, but let me tell you one thing. I have a friend who has a very, very interesting social startup code plastic bank.

...

And

...

what he says is, I mean, they active in

...

countries that are the poorest of tourists in this world.

...

And he says, you know, what creativity eats is for those communities,

...

creativity

...

survival.

...

So you need

...

creativity

...

to more or less,

...

bring the food onto your table, in those communities.

...

So when we talk about creativity,

...

it's actually ...it

...

sounds like a cozy feature

...

you know, nice to have in our modern lives.

...

But creativity

...

is actually how we and a species will survive

...

Well, this is that this is a notion that actually has been

...

examined a number of times and i'm glad that you've brought this up because

...

this this book I keep mentioning on on various

...

various occasions.

...

Guy

...

transcendental,

...

which

...

very elegantly states that

...

without

...

creativity,

...

you know, we wouldn't actually have this

...

civilization

...

that we have

...

and and she doesn't mean the Chapel.

...

That said that said,

...

that celebrated

...

creative class

...

as described

...

by by rigid Florida in his famous quote.

...

Is actually tiny. Right? It's it's effect

...

of the effects of of its work, I felt far and wide, but they

...

the numbers are actually really quite small. How many people are we talking about?

...

Oh,

...

Are you are you passing this question at me? Because you know I known ...I love I love numbers, and I learned to visit you're love numbers you now you you're love

...

how evidence go on. I know. I don't I love it. So

...

this is serious. This is it. So

...

when you go to the websites, of the eastern australian statistics agency.

...

They give you a neat

...

very kind of

...

organized you of how many people

...

are actually

...

holding

...

our future

...

in their hands, which I ...what I mean by that is

...

how many people worldwide?

...

Would you assume?

...

Are working in

...

fields that are related to some sort of innovation research and develop,

...

including

...

a health medicine,

...

pharmaceuticals,

...

social sciences,

...

environment,

...

anything you can think of, you know

...

research.

...

So so they say,

...

that it's worldwide,

...

approximately ten million people.

...

So this is one large one large city. Okay. One some more Chinese city,

...

One Chinese city,

...

worldwide wise, people who are

...

accepted

...

as being qualified,

...

experts,

...

which is already

...

the big big problem I, for instance,

...

because

...

domains are protected by gave keepers,

...

We allow only zero point zero one percent of the entire world population

...

to hold our future in their hand. I want you to let that sink in zero point zero one percent of the entire world population.

...

Holding

...

your future and my future

...

in their hands.

...

So

...

How about

...

trying to

...

allow

...

a couple more

...

to enter that innovation process.

...

It's there is a very interesting research by

...

V go.

...

He's a darkness,

...

very

...

actually quite famous darkness,

...

economics professor business professor,

...

And he says,

...

according to

...

the studies They've done

...

in any given company,

...

you have approximately

...

five percent

...

people

...

who are more or less who could be considered more or less

...

born innovators. So who would add extreme value

...

in your bottom line. Most companies never find those people. Right?

...

Yeah. So so the ...there's this article by harvard business you buy him

...

called,

...

identify your best employees before they leave.

...

Exactly right.

...

So so, you know, it's a So you know, you a two thousand people company or two thousand five hundred people come when you were talking my, like, at least what my math is. Now.

...

Zero point zero one percent. You know?

...

No. And more, five, we're talking about five percent. Right? So oh, five percent those five people okay. Well, that's. That's that's actually quite high. You know.

...

That's actually quite promising.

...

Absolutely. So so five percent is actually a and awesome numbers. So if if we talk about here now companies that are really, really

...

much larger, you know, ten thousand is fifty thousands, hundred thousand people. It's a big number.

...

You're not leveraging as a company.

...

And. And and as we know, if you don't

...

leverage

...

somebody else will leverage you out,

...

in

...

the not too distant..

...

So, you know, one of the ...so there there kind of two ways here.

...

One of those ways is to make sure that

...

to make sure that you can kind of help more people enter that process of

...

and entrepreneurship if we're talking about corporations.

...

But also make sure that you're allowing

...

people

...

who are not the usual suspects to take part into the in that process because not not the other department to not the market

...

absolutely. And also not always the same people because what happens right now, most of the time is,

...

you know, you have a couple of people who are very creative

...

can

...

extroverted and who go and and kind of apply for all the

...

start up

...

incubation competitions

...

you hold

...

within your company,

...

but

...

but you also have to be sensitive about

...

people who are not so loud and who are not so extroverted and will join every competition.

...

You know, we because ...we

...

kind of have this notion that creativity

...

can only come from certain types of people.,

...

of course, there's no. Absolutely.

...

Thank you.

...

Well, me know worry more about

...

drawing of of conclusions for or perhaps at least insights

...

on this

...

on this program.

...

To rock up to wrap path

...

normally they are thinking and

...

jumping from one idea to another

...

in order to get some general hand on a concept. This is a standard operating procedure for artists.

...

Perhaps,

...

one of the ways in which companies could

...

encourage

...

their

...

locating finding and engaging that five percent

...

And

...

in which companies

...

and organizations, we're talking about, you know,

...

public administration as well and and, you know, what have you?

...

Could

...

grow

...

the

...

innovation muscle

...

and they imagination

...

potential of their people.

...

Perhaps

...

the way the starting point might be to encourage

...

non linear thinking, which, of course, is an of quite often,

...

but it is a basic

...

principle

...

in in in creativity.

...

How might we go about

...

doing that as a as a takeaway? If

...

if you're listening to this program,

...

you're probably

...

hanging on and and

...

wanting to hear take her, look here as a take away. Let's let's think about

...

a starting point for the development of this,

...

you magical

...

innovation culture,

...

and let's starting with nonlinear thinking,

...

how might how might that look when applied

...

in.

...

Normally they're thinking.,

...

maybe maybe you should also give a short definition of what you're understanding is under it normally only near thinking.

...

Well, this will always be a good good a good good starting point. Very simple.

...

Where

...

you are able to jump from one concept to another and assimilate

...

and then

...

remix the

...

ideas that that that you that you pick up along the way. This is not standard operating

...

procedure for

...

you know, company operations.

...

Yeah. I think one of the most important issues that's going to go probably in that kind of process where you know that there is not one right answer to a certain question.

...

That's comfort.

...

That's very uncomfortable

...

also for us. Right? So you have to kind of

...

get at ease with that kind of same that there is not one right answer,

...

but there might be a lot of wrong answers, and the more of those wrong cancers you find out the the closer you get to the result.

...

So

...

probably, you know, everybody, what everybody talks about

...

loving mistakes, loving making mistakes are not being afraid of,,

...

you know,

...

mistakes

...

everybody talks about this, but I have my issues, of course, it's this context because ...or you can fall in love with just making this mistakes

...

you know, nobody

...

nobody makes mistakes on purpose.

...

So you never ...the problem is

...

I don't think that we have a very

...

understandable con

...

working definition of what it means to learn from mistakes.

...

So

...

how do you make people learn from their mistakes when they are totally terror by the mistake? Especially, you know, if you've

...

law loose

...

instruments if you lose

...

money if you have

...

the breath of your

...

you know, of your

...

supervisor at your neck who is extremely angry at you. So

...

so

...

creating an environment of trust

...

is important,

...

but also creating an environment of

...

experimentation

...

where

...

when you lose, you're not immediately, ...you're

...

going to lose, like, five millions

...

in in one

...

experiment. That's so make sure that the the the

...

experiments

...

or the, you know, the experiments don't lead to mistakes that are

...

expensive and terminal. Right?

...

Exactly. And and that's what I was just going to close with this when you talk about the artistic practice, that's something that we artists

...

learn pretty early on. Right? So what we do is

...

we practice

...

before going on to the big stage, we practice on smaller stages.

...

So that once you're in a big haul that you have had a lot of experience with the small stages and you made all your mistakes and then you learn from those stakes. What does that mean learning from those mistakes?

...

I think that is something that everybody needs to

...

look into very carefully and define

...

for themselves,

...

how

...

you actually

...

learn from making shitty work.

...

Well, it's you look at it and you go, damn. That didn't work in it.

...

And, of course, if you do it if you do it in a in a in a small club,

...

they'll they'll

...

upload anyway.

...

Because they'll think it was just an experiment, But if you do it on one of the big stages in Berlin or,

...

you probably don't get to go on that big stage again for quite some time.

...

So the same principle applies. Right? You you don't

...

you don't

...

create experiments that have to be

...

concluded, in know to see

...

if they work at all. Right?

...

Experimentation

...

In small steps is kind of part of the

...

lot of the person

...

we can we can go like this forever, but ...that's rather than going on

...

right now today, I think

...

what we should do is inconvenient enough in a in a little while and

...

look at some of the threads that we have picked out of this

...

is four called

...

of yeah called called creativity today, and

...

revisit, and maybe you look at some.

...

Details and practical takeaways.

...

I'm most grateful to

...

the who's join me today in the barbara.

...

So that is a fairness composer and

...

the father and c of the foundation.

...

Working in Germany and in Austria but with the community,

...

spread out pretty much across

...

across the globe

...

and trying to figure out how to

...

well, make creativity more accessible and to for people to be able to access their that create

...

in ways that are

...

commercially applicable, and have distinctly sensible

...

if we may put it that way..

...

Thank you very much for today.

...

Thank you so much, Ralph for the conversation What's a delight.

...

Thank you.

Fortune Cookie