The Future of Entertainment is Interactive

The Future of Entertainment is Interactive.

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Transcript

...

Well,

...

it's being said that

...

we at the beginning stage the fastest.

...

Master tumultuous and most fundamentally consequential

...

period of transformation

...

in the history of civilization.

...

No question.

...

Pressure.

...

We had no map.

...

We have no previous experience. Of being in a place like this to to fall back on.

...

We already have each other

...

and not just the each other.

...

We know with whom we feel safe, but also, and especially so,

...

the each other, we do not know

...

people who are

...

beyond

...

immediate bubbles.

...

The vent diagram circles that

...

may only touch around

...

And is that?

...

People who live elsewhere speak at different language, brilliant, even and different gods and find

...

very different people hot.

...

People from the other side of the science are conversely divided people who do

...

for living something that's entirely foreign to you.

...

We need to talk to these people. We need to find ways

...

to find

...

a common ground. So let's do that.

...

This is the global studio my name Ralph Com, and we are starting

...

a series of interviews

...

around the idea of radical

...

collaboration, which is fundamental

...

to the Ethos

...

in the bar today, therefore, with me are

...

Christine,

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educator and thinker on such issues as

...

empathy in the workplace.

...

Leo comes to us from

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Sunny Brightworks

...

today.

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And,

...

who is

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the Founder and partner at Chile,

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is an entrepreneur and in a former life,

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a corporate executive, welcome to birth of you.

...

To.

...

Hello.

...

How's everybody?

...

We think I think we are well, leo are you with us? Yes. I am very very much.

...

I you have to say I don't in reality to look as shocked and surprised, and I have a little bit more hair than my little I can. Well, I tell you they they select these at at Random. I'm sure you don't want to know what my first one was.

...

You know, I I I pick up the daily paper

...

and open up on any page. And, of course, as you can imagine the news I read has precious little to do with collaboration.

...

And if anything a lot to do with

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division polarization,

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hatred and lies,

...

So today, let's think about ways

...

in which we can find common spaces for collaboration.

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In an atmosphere like that. Are you up for that?

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Definitely.

...

Absolutely.

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Well done.

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You have

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both been

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writing

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lately on ideas which

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when oil down represent radical collaboration.

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How are we getting collaboration wrong or at least?

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Not right enough

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so much on the time.

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You're ...what do you wanna start?

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Happy to ...I

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think one big thing that I'm observing, which which pains me greatly on on almost like a visceral physics level.

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Is this whole

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hero thumb thinking? So everything seems to fall into

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the system.

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Somebody wins somebody loses.

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Exactly. Me versus someone else,

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too big options.

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And, you know, most things in life really aren't piece slices you know, Okay. Maybe if you have a few front if you are in there, a slices and i e foreigners or less and so on. But most things in life aren't actually like that.

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But we kind of make it look like they are. And I think we the lot when we do that.

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Because then everything turns into a weird accounting problem, and and and I I don't like that. I think it doesn't make sense,

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I think humans aren't actually like that.

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I think there's really

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instead of favorite to see. So one one of the things, I'm I'm often using. It's called

...

tetra,

...

and it's basically like die

...

to

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two problems it's basically

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or this is already best.

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A to our instead of a versus speed, basically,

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also offers a couple more options, so something could be both a and

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Something could be neither a no beef

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or sometimes there's a version that has a fifth option whereas like, something could be something in entirely different.

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So I sometimes use it to explain gender identity where sometimes people get the mail part, and I got the female art, but all kinds of others,

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other ways of being in the world that people don't so sometimes don't understand. So I i identify as mental for this fairly personal for me, and I found that a really useful way of explaining that that orange is screwed big thing. Basically.

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So we need broader horizons.

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I think we do. I think we do. At least break it up a little bit beyond the two options see what else is author and where jessica.,

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what do you think me?

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Well I think one of the ...one of the things we get wrong,

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systematically

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is that if we're gonna be collaborating,

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when you talk you on everything

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all the time,

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we need to

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to build

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a common

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idea of what's wrong.

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I'm not coming a deal how to fix it.

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And I think

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that really makes no sense.

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If you tell me about this kevin to agree?

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Yeah.

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Actually, one of the ...one

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of our models in in the work we do is it's strictly forbidden totally.

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If I catch you agreeing, I throw you out of the table.

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Well Oh,. I I I i disagree hot with that.

...

So so what's it? What is that

...

maybe we don't need to agree.

...

Maybe we just need to

...

to sometimes

...

agree on some things

...

minimal.

...

And what's more interesting is maybe we don't need totally at all. About what's a department? Or what's the solution? Oh what's the path action?

...

Maybe we just need to agree

...

on

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a common epic purpose.

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I if we can agree on that,

...

that everybody can go and

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arrange and and work on their own terms.

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So let me give you an example.

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Our traditional way of collaborating

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for example, for global warming,

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is the cop.

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Now the cop

...

which

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united all the countries that are committed to solving this problem, which is

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ninety percent of the the world.

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Need to agree on everything. If they wanna take one step forward.

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That's the way works.

...

Everybody has to subscribe any agreement.

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That being said, we're very proud of the paris accord.

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Now what's tragic is that the chord is cop twenty one.

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That meaning it took us twenty one years to be able to sign something we could agree on.

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And that speed we're not gonna make it.

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Now instead of that, you have a complete different approach

...

that comes from the cop,

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something called the

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climate

...

alliance.

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And the kind ambition alliance says,

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we want to get to

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carbon

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neutrality.

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You want in ...sign.

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Your country.

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You went in

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today. I don't care how you're gonna do it. Just sign.

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You're gonna be carbon neutral by two thousand fifty.

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Perfect.

...

You're not a country. You doesn't wanna sign.

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Your city more sign as the city.

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You're the marathon in the bed. Don't sign as a country. The country doesn't one. No problem.

...

Plenty you have done.

...

Absolutely.

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And then you say, well, I'm not a see either. I'm just a company. Well, sign is a company.

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Well, I'm not a company i'm a sign a university.

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Well, I'm actually venture from well as a friend. Okay.

...

And what happens is everybody anybody can come in,

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Anybody can

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commit. Anybody can help.

...

On their own terms

...

on their own speed

...

on their own logic.

...

We don't have to be agree on everything.

...

We don't have to

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make sure that everybody understands the same problem the same way. When you think about,

...

some people

...

concerned about gender quality. Some people are concerned about global warming. We can all work together these. We don't need to be all

...

committed to global warming or all committed to gender equality.

...

So

...

the interesting thing is

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what what we call extreme collaboration is

...

he don't need to be agreeing on everything.

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Can actually disagree

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profoundly

...

and collaborate.

...

And I think that change to the rules.

...

Jim young kim,

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the former my president,

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the the world bank is an anthropologist public health.

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Professional

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by frank,

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which is interesting in day is actually in this moment.

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Here's been quoted the same. Solidarity

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is critical to michael And, of course, she's not

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not alone on their front.

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Is this idea of

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agreeing on the general direction while trying to figure out the details along the way,

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something that may help us humans,

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learn

...

so the directly at scale.

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Think that's good. I think it really could or I would I would strongly hope it does if I'm honest because

...

I think it does help to have a big vision,

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and then you obviously also needs to make it practical, but I think that takes a lot of the ideology of the future.

...

And

...

that also then helps you find common ground with some of the other people regardless of the specifics office method or what you do on Tuesday morning, eleven o'clock and whether you agree whether laptop the right position. You still know you're ultimately a good enough person to care about general survival of humanity and the planet, which is you're stopping space.,

...

yeah. Is just so possible way forward.

...

Absolutely, great think.

...

What

...

this is what I call building

...

a common boat.

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If

...

if we are on opposite boats,

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then we can compete.

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I'm actually making a hole

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in your vote, make sense

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But if we are all in the same boat, making a hole in the boat makes no sense at all

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because we all run. Right?

...

Yeah. So

...

absolutely. So we need to

...

build

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a way of seeing

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that makes us see the world as wherever we're all in the same boat.

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And that's what we need you wanna clean the the oceans

...

or

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solve

...

or,

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you know, so go worrying any of of those things.

...

We ...we

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as a matter of fact,

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we are on the same boat. The amount ...we're supposed to be eating

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one

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credit cards.

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That that's the amount of plastic

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micro.

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We we need a a month.

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Well it wanna stuck that

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where Either gonna do it altogether?

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We're not gonna make it.

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That means the Chinese would the Americans are gonna have to work together.

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We can expect to first agree and then work together.

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If we're all on the same boat, we can be

...

we can be so that. We can have so We can have empathy

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if we're all in this together.

...

Yeah.

...

I think that also opens more space for everyone to contribute

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because what I often feel is

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it feels like such, a big thing. It feels like you need to be a country or a company or a big organization or as you can to speak but person who lives, and that's left at the corner who's up their daily lives?

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Because essentially, I mean, we have a ...we have a team size of seven plus billion people should really be enough to get almost anything done.

...

So I think we need to make space for everyone and to also give people sense they can contribute and can feel invited and call to do something.

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But it's not just the big. It's really for everyone.

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That is why I love discussing these ideas with people like you because

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you're making my job so easy.

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You're just jumping ahead to, you know, the next three questions.

...

Good. It's fantastic. I don't even have to think about it. Though Don't think about any

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like in segue

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because,,

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of course, humans

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have

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the seven and a half billion people of whatever we are exactly.

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We all have a you know, built in capacity for dividing other humans

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into group and group

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and we can't help that that that dynamic is is as powerful as it is pervasive, and it is automatic and we do it.

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Without realizing we're doing it, white and black straight left cleaning

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and right wing.

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Approach to parenting god, do you know where? You driver, a Wanna and Suv professions for gold clubs, hobbies

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we have

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have these van diagrams in our heads

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and assign others into one group or the other

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and then we get group think that results from these

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assignments, and that's hugely detrimental to rapid a definition of solutions in this world that is

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changing so quickly.

...

So

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maybe let's look at a approaches that you had seen

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working

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in making those vent bubbles a little bit more

...

inclusive. What have you seen that's worked?,

...

you'll start for for for a change.

...

Well,

...

I think that's my day job.

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I get paid to build us.

...

We ...one

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of the things that I work is it's a google movement called cities can be

...

And what we do is create

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multi

...

colder governance

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for collective action.

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And what we're trying to do is to build sustainable cities.

...

So to these develop advanced some Dk

...

putting everybody on the table, putting everybody to collaborate.

...

And

...

yeah.

...

Building in this common purpose is makes it so different, so easy.

...

So in chile

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we're

...

...we

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played a soccer,

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which Americans call. So okay but we call fu. Football.

...

And

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what you can see

...

is that, yeah,

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when it's to trillion

...

teams start competing,

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then

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we are enemies,

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but when chile competes

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against another country,

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then we become allies and we're all brothers.

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And when a lab in American team competes with our European team,

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then all Latin Americans or brothers,

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So

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the

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the frame of references

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of who is we and who is them?

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Can be changed and actually much

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and much faster than we tend to think.

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Thing of

...

is

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a wonderful australian

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name of.

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Wow.

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Black

...

black people

...

white people.

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And the ask question.

...

And then she was present with they

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made up

...

high magazine story or, you know,

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inventing

...

by an alien civilization,

...

and it turns out

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that she would measure that racist.

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And this is one way the other hand, it turned out that's black people, and white people will look a lot more like each other one directly?

...

And

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it's this

...

tendency to.

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And then

...

but it also carries

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cameras white because.

...

I couldn't hear what said.

...

Think we just lost the last hoffman is also plus

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black know you're back.

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And this is really all the

...

And I and I had such such elegant terms of phrase. Can you hear me now? Yes we can. Excellent..

...

Now I was ...I was when need took ...well need took get this out in the edited version, but this is a live show. So you

...

guys listening to it, of course, so get all the the water and all.

...

Researcher Karen

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Has

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proven with her research that

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research on on the

...

racist

...

tendencies

...

has proven that

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white people and black people look a lot

...

more like each other when there are green people

...

out there

...

And she did that with a a made up story in time magazine

...

which, of course, goes to show what we all know that

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people gang up together

...

in

...

in the face of a common enemy, but then we continue to make up enemies,

...

which is a problem.

...

It is it is it's

...

an interesting example. So I grew up in Southern Germany. And when I

...

when I was a a small kid,

...

Germany was still divided,

...

and I dropped in the Western side, and people kept talking about how different people in the North and the south and how in

...

unpredictable the cultures and the dialects and oh, you couldn't possibly and how different everything is, and then the reunification happen. And all of a sudden everything became about the East and the west, and the west was perfectly aligned how different the east esports.

...

And it's all, you know, it's it's it's

...

it's so And, obviously, there are differences, But, again, it's it's just not not a very helpful way of mapping things.

...

The

...

Writer Tom Drivers

...

has

...

el

...

described a phenomenon

...

of which we have been seeing a fair lot

...

lately. People are happy to subscribe to beliefs

...

which are patent

...

clearly wrong

...

for fear of being os within this social groups. He writes

...

the negative consequences of socially and unacceptable release are large immediate and close.

...

The negative consequences of objectively false beliefs are often negligible.

...

You was talking specifically about

...

climate change and how people in regions clearly affected by it continue to deny existence, but

...

This

...

surgical and psychological phenomenon

...

is, of course, to be found

...

elsewhere.

...

Social cost is ...is

...

the skeleton key maybe that we could talk about? How do we shift those attitudes kids.

...

Leo, you far your you you've been working on some practical ways to

...

bridge those

...

those divides.

...

If we lost Leo now? No. I'm I'm here. I'm not sure Sorry. I think

...

I have the same question.

...

Yeah. I

...

I'm wanna insist on this

...

common

...

purpose

...

if you if we can

...

put urgency

...

and

...

common pride,

...

on who we are together,

...

then it becomes so easy.

...

So let me give you an example.

...

Well, I I love the the example of of

...

Germany,

...

and and how this changes

...

so it's very easy.

...

For example, if you're a president

...

candidate for president

...

bolivia,

...

to do your campaign against Chile

...

because we have a regrets that's been going on for

...

hundred of years

...

So if you wanna get elected, you say, I'm gonna make sure that Julie pays and everybody gets

...

enthusiastic,

...

and and they follow you. Now this idea of creating an enemy

...

is cheap is fast.

...

Maybe we can create a faster

...

enemy or or a more

...

intelligent enemy. Doesn't need to be another country or another race or another people.

...

It can be global warming.

...

We can be

...

the destroying of our

...

environment. Can be

...

the destroying of our

...

piece or a way of living

...

and if we you can get this conversation rolling if you

...

build that mean.

...

People get excited. And and and if that becomes the official name,

...

wants.

...

So I I think one of the polyamory we have is

...

trying to do cultural change.

...

From the

...

engineering perspective.

...

I think we need to understand cultural change from the artistic for perspective, which is much more close to cultural pieces issues.

...

And if we understand because a an artistic problem, then the solutions are very different.

...

They're more in the symbolic realm than in the practical realm.

...

And if we actually

...

pack this symbolic prom, and we build a common sense

...

of a common purpose, and and we build

...

a common

...

ethical story

...

of who we are and who wanna be ...and

...

what is it that we wanna take care of, then everybody's board

...

once you have enough people board it ...nobody wants be left out,

...

so where

...

the same phenomenon that you was saying about global Warming, i i've been using it the other way around.

...

If we build the story that of people buy in, then everybody wants to be in also.

...

And there you can channel,

...

an infinite number of resources

...

because everybody wants to participate an act wants to be

...

the ones who actually say the common boat.

...

Humans are naturally collaborative. Right?

...

Absolutely.

...

No.

...

I think earlier

...

watching just brought up

...

sparked another idea there is in in conflict resolution, there is one one way of of looking at conflict or a method. It's called Transcend, and it basically takes ...I

...

mean, that kind of

...

in the name. It tries to go beyond what the what the distance positions are. And the idea is very much ...because

...

you can. You know, you mentioned two different countries as an example, and you can see something as a border or you can see it as where

...

two things, two countries, two ideas, to people where they meet rather than border so maybe instead of a fence,

...

maybe you want to

...

build a nice area to fit with a few park

...

and

...

like, a beer garden and the band that

...

off of.

...

Maybe that's the not more productive and, you know,

...

then sort of

...

discussing conceptually where people think the border is you can just kind of sit there together.

...

And I think conception were really quick at getting defenses up rather than getting the pop ventures off.

...

I rather like that idea of a of a

...

beer garden on

...

on the border.

...

This is the the

...

Studio.

...

My name ralph I'm here with,

...

and,

...

and we are discussing

...

ways to experiment.

...

How to find

...

some means of collaboration that

...

feel right, not necessarily good.

...

Certainly not easy.

...

Easy won't cut it

...

anymore, but

...

ways

...

that we'll somehow actually allow people with very different viewpoints to come together

...

and work towards a common positive the future. So we have a future and we can

...

in which we can continue to disagree, if you will.,

...

you were mentioning artists

...

second ago, Can we learn from musicians?

...

Musicians exist in that

...

exciting space that is

...

built in part on collaboration and in on intense competition.

...

Is there a lesson for for the rest of us in this?

...

Oh, absolutely.

...

I

...

absolutely love musicians actually.

...

That's funny you should say because

...

we launched

...

yesterday.

...

A national contest

...

for

...

people to sing dreams

...

as a way of

...

rebuilding national unity,

...

where

...

Julia is in a very polarized moment right now.

...

We were there before the pandemic.

...

With the

...

classical

...

blaming each other for the results of the

...

dynamic treatment.

...

The polarization has only

...

exaggerated.

...

And so one of the things we did is we said

...

sing sounds senior dreams, and say about the country you'd love to have.

...

And

...

we got members of the Jury from all sides of wife or

...

not only musicians, but different kinds of artists

...

from all political

...

backgrounds.

...

And we put them as the jury. We made

...

viral videos of the joy talking about the contest,

...

and everybody's very excited about it.

...

I I it's an interesting political moment in chile at the moment. Could you give us a skinny

...

on this? And and

...

let's maybe see how

...

the resolution that you you you're mentioning might

...

lead to more collaborative politics.

...

Well,

...

kelly,

...

had a

...

military cool in

...

nineteen seventy three,

...

and

...

the military didn't

...

necessarily have any skills of managing a country.

...

So

...

they hired a group of

...

guys that had just gone to the

...

Milton Friedman Chicago business school.

...

So they will call the Chicago voice.

...

And the Chicago voice is implemented a very strict milton friedman view of economy,

...

and we built a prototype of worldwide experiment of what would be eight milton friedman to go over a country

...

And that has been chilly for the last fifty years

...

on the side, it has been great. We have made a lot of advances, and we're probably one of the most

...

the best economies in Latin America.

...

But on the social part is been the opposite.

...

It's everybody for itself.

...

The medicine is private. The your pensions is private.

...

Your education is private. Everybody has to fight for their own

...

self. And so there's no so directly, and there is no building of society in society he had been

...

turned itself apart, even though we have a lot of prosperity.

...

And all that king come back down on the eighteenth of October twenty nineteen,

...

were two million people took play streets

...

where seventeen million

...

people countries so two million people, is a lot of people,

...

and

...

we have protests

...

on for about two or three months.

...

Stop.

...

And finally, we are agreed to change the constitution,

...

and we just selected the people who gonna right the news institution.

...

And

...

we had in in place

...

some criteria to make sure that it was gender equality

...

in the

...

in the group that writes the constitution,

...

the funny thing is that the mechanism

...

to

...

make sure that we had gender quality actually with the other way around.

...

Because we elected much more much more many women than men.

...

And so the mechanism

...

put more man on table because the

...

weren't enough.

...

But he the the whole idea is that the conversation

...

of

...

who's wife who's wrong,

...

who's been helping and who's been killed the country

...

is just being a.

...

And everybody seems to have

...

the reason on its side

...

and everybody

...

that's not on their side is ...i actually the enemy I is completely wrong and has been doing harm the whole country all the time.

...

So in that level conversation, there's not much we can agree on.

...

Except that the other one is completely

...

disposable.

...

And so that's one of the reasons why we

...

build this

...

singing contest.

...

As one of the initiatives we're doing, that's not the only one.

...

But this is a non nonprofit I participated in.

...

It's called three times I.

...

I means let's inspire ourselves. Let's include ourselves and let's innovate ourselves.

...

And what we're

...

trying to do with this singing contest is to resolve a sense of

...

belonging

...

to a common thing.

...

And the artists are great up doing that.

...

I've been working for years with artists

...

because

...

they can change the way people think,

...

not by explaining,

...

not by trying to convince

...

but by moving them

...

by touching their souls instead of their heads.

...

And and I think when we think of cultural change, artists are

...

central Part of it.

...

Does it

...

that's it seemed that's from where you're sitting does it seem like the

...

This conversation is is moving on without

...

descending

...

immediately personal attacks and building up more roles rather than

...

taking them down is working.

...

We ...as I say, we we have different initiatives and all of them are working in different ways.

...

One of things we're doing we're painting murals in hospitals

...

as a tribute to people who are working on the first on the front line. Yep.

...

We are building dialogues

...

sessions, and we get a hundred people

...

before we used to do this

...

impressions, but now we do it by the zoom,

...

and we get a hundred people from all walks of lives with very, very different

...

views on a specific subject.

...

For example,

...

there's a big conflict with the natives

...

people of Children.

...

So we get many people on one tax and the private companies that have

...

forest

...

industries

...

on the other one or we get people from

...

the private sector and people from coming out of jail, I'm very really to ...how

...

do we insert them in society? And we have people like that and we get them

...

not to talk about the subject we disagree on

...

because we don't mind that the fact that they disagree, but we get them to know each other.

...

And so we will get them in small rooms, and we ask them to talk about their personal life, Not the political views, not about the problem, not about the solution.

...

Just who are you?

...

An amazing things start having out of that because people actually

...

can build bridges and start having the serious conversation they need to have. But, first of all, they see each other as

...

a viable

...

counterpart.

...

They see other people on they seats. They have the same heartbreak breaks about sun died or top of the diet or

...

company that went broke or

...

all the things that

...

make us human.

...

We have those in common And if we can talk about those,

...

then it's much easier to get empathy about the the other one, and then we can talk about the

...

the actual problems and the actual solution

...

but first, we need to

...

hear each other out and

...

and see each other.

...

People are generally drawn to

...

conversations with others where qualities such as compassion and

...

empathy,

...

are the primary drivers.

...

And I'm

...

curious.

...

Whether or not it actually takes someone from

...

the outside

...

to get these processes started,

...

and more specifically,

...

someone from the outside of the mainstream.

...

To help people see other points of view or is that indeed an altogether wrong way of seeing it?

...

Since if you think about it, there is no such thing as the mainstream

...

and you may

...

argue that argue that it is a

...

motivated construct

...

since we are all members of

...

multiple minority. So to bit more neutral term, social groupings.

...

Maybe it's time we considered that possibility

...

and

...

there is no mainstream.

...

We are all just

...

swimming in in one big river of humanity and and those conversations of

...

compassion and empathy.

...

What's required you've

...

you've been working along those lines for quite some time.

...

What has been your experience done?

...

Figuring out if there is such a thing as the mainstream and the ...and if

...

and if it's not indeed, just a a bad idea,

...

that should be

...

long since

...

buried.

...

Well, I think I probably always felt a bit like an outsider.

...

And then I've also realized that's not actually five common.

...

And if everyone's

...

feeling like an outside of depending on how you slice it, then maybe, yeah I think I think there is something to the shared element.

...

So

...

obviously, given that I'm trying to to often take the conversation

...

beyond two big options, mainstream versus not mainstream

...

be two options that I would immediately try and dismantle.

...

So totally with you on that. The other thing I working on which I found like a a useful way of creating connection is to talk about values

...

because

...

values are ultimately,

...

as as the name says, it essentially things we will value so fundamental

...

quality can care about.

...

They are christ this. So and if if we do at the same time, so for example, if somebody values,

...

honesty

...

or if somebody values

...

family

...

or creativity,

...

that could be a really good point to connect to other people about. And then at the same time, what that means so somebody could be quite different.

...

And I think that can start a really helpful deep conversation.

...

And

...

the beauty about values is it's a really good.

...

It's sort of halfway in between. So it's safe enough that you can start the conversation in the business environment

...

and it can go really really deep if people

...

people are willing to go there or if people are kind of warmed up a little bit or started to get to know each other. So it can actually go really really really.

...

How how fast can it actually

...

get

...

down to the nitty gritty?,

...

I don't really have, like, i never actually set that with a stop watch

...

Know about alright. This is ...yeah know. It's interesting to consider whether whether, you know, you start you sort of you get the the general idea out and it takes a a few weeks and then people maybe but I'm talking with an an organization within a company with a a group or a group of people who who know each other.

...

And then

...

Some of them

...

realized that it's actually safe to talk about x and z, and then we takes another couple of weeks. Oh is it a question of actually

...

moderating

...

and facilitating

...

and curating such conversations. Does it actually take

...

a rebel?

...

On the inside to say, alright. You guys, we're gonna sit sit down. We're gonna talk about it. It's gonna be painful

...

for the first ten minutes, but then it's gonna get good. I mean,

...

How does that work?

...

I think you need enough

...

leeway to at least be allowed to start and to make to make some inroads so to actually have a few conversations and see what happens. But I also think it's probably a bit awkward in the beginning.

...

Tell

...

if you have at least one or two people that are seeing you and established enough?

...

Who go along with it and who can be seen doing that, basically so that it's so that people don't get tempted to classify

...

as, oh, it's that crazy person from the outside, and we're just kind of doing that thing and hopefully they go away again.

...

So you do need. You do need some internal role model

...

and you need the the willingness

...

to

...

to give it a go

...

to make it safe enough that people can least start.

...

And also, you have to be open to deal with what's coming up because when you

...

invite people to open up and to bring something

...

and actually go ahead and do that. They might bring all sorts of things that earned on your list.

...

And that has to be welcome. So if you invite people to open up, you have to be honest and serious about it. And if you're not, then I wouldn't and stopped because you'll just going to make hash out of it basically.

...

Think you you're serious. And if you have a few role models,

...

if you're willing to give a you to give it a few rounds and to to also see where people want to take it,

...

I think you can you can make it good start. And it's never done you like with all it's my conversations

...

between friends it's not like, oh, no. We finally talked about everything okay moving on. No.

...

Well, this is the aspect ...yeah. This is a really, a really important

...

important aspect because

...

quite often, within

...

defined

...

organizations,

...

whatever the structure of that organization we

...

we tend to

...

to

...

as we were saying at the very, very beginning, define

...

the outcome agree on the outcome work towards was the come once we've reached it, you know we take it off, everybody goes home happy, but it doesn't.

...

It doesn't work like that. Does it I mean these sorts of conversations never

...

do finish.

...

Another you're

...

starting

...

along

...

process with,

...

you know, senior business leaders in Chile,

...

and

...

the the the aim of of which

...

really is to get people to understand

...

they the nature of of transformation and the need for such transformation that we all find ourselves.

...

Carrying

...

just at the moment. How is that working? And how are you going to get there?

...

A friend of mine published

...

a call and on newspaper this morning,

...

making a call for gentleness.

...

I love that.

...

We actually want to change

...

the worldview view of the event. Of my country, which is very conservative and not necessarily

...

has the

...

the right approach to solve the phones

...

right approach being said by means. So with my criteria,

...

and we need to be humble about that. It is my approach. It's it it is my will.

...

And and we ...if we're not

...

gentle enough if we're not

...

compassionate enough,

...

what we're gonna get is people who are

...

feeling

...

insulted and

...

feeling that we are criticizing the way they're looking have things.

...

And we're

...

being disrespectful of

...

their story,

...

their practices,

...

their

...

experience.

...

So

...

I think cultural change

...

needs to be kind.

...

Needs to be compassionate needs to be

...

gentle

...

needs to be

...

understanding

...

that each of us

...

we don't have any real connection to the real

...

problems or or or

...

or the true solution.

...

What we have is this historical

...

understanding that we inherited it from our point of view

...

because of the life we lived,

...

I mean, we had lived a different life we'd have different point of view.

...

And And if we can start ...speaking

...

from that,

...

compassionate and gentle way, I think we can get people to listen.

...

And I think we can build together.

...

So as you say, we're starting,

...

a process

...

that's gonna during

...

go through the whole year.

...

And last night, we had a very beautiful conversation.

...

With a bio

...

who showed

...

how

...

from the point of view biology,

...

we have no

...

capacity

...

as a

...

as a human being

...

to really reach

...

reality.

...

And to really have a

...

quote

...

objective on ...quote

...

understanding of the world.

...

We don't have that. What we have is

...

our his point of view and your historical a you and how do we dance together

...

as to keep you fan?

...

And if we can own our own

...

history.

...

I mean we can own our own criticism.

...

And if we can own

...

what we've learned to love and learn to take, and learn to fear

...

then this space for us kind each other,

...

and to have a honest authentic conversation.

...

And so

...

we feel that

...

one of the things that Bow is amazing at is

...

showing you there's there's a thousand ways of looking at this.

...

There's people from all over of the world from all the religions from all the different disciplines

...

there are looking at life and and

...

main concerns and our main conscious in very different ways.

...

And if we can get in touch with that, and we can get in touch with the fact,

...

that

...

we're not coming at it from the right point of view. Just from what we have,

...

I think we're gonna make it.

...

So we are going to always have an incomplete

...

view of objective reality

...

unless we get

...

a common

...

collective view of objective reality and and talk about it. Is that more or less the

...

the take away.

...

I I don't even meet. I once again, I go back to twitter where I started I don't think we need to agree,

...

but I need to be aware

...

that my point of view is my point of view. I mean, took be aware of your point of your name

...

not so much agreeing, but realizing that

...

these there is only one

...

composite view and

...

in order to really see

...

what life is all about, we actually have to

...

try and have these conversations and and

...

welcome Island someone else's issues as

...

much much wise a person has said

...

time

...

because I would possibly actually start earlier if I may disagree or not,

...

please. The disagreeing is what we do here very very well.

...

I love Leo, I love when you talked about singing

...

because

...

I think we probably actually need to start with feeling the feelings

...

ourselves.

...

And a lot of people immediately go into their head and then the problem becomes really big, and then there's frameworks and concepts and all sorts of things. And, you know, who you're basically out of your body in the head in framework and and then every thing comes in, like boxes and spreadsheet cells and things.

...

And I think what's singing does is

...

first of all, it small things down.

...

It connects you with your own breasts and with your physical state,

...

you can feel, you know, like, when you say and you feel your chest kind of vibrate,

...

I think that's a really good way for people to tap into how they're actually feeling, which is why a lot of find much super scary.

...

And I would ...I would almost start with stuff. Like, do we actually know how we feel a artists in the face of the of his own and maybe we can also connect about how overwhelming that is and what we're feeling, and maybe that's also a texting element.

...

Maybe if there's one point of agreement, this is this this is it. Right.

...

It's it's all a bit bloody big.

...

Absolutely.

...

So if we are indeed to

...

look

...

at this objective reality with the eyes of others and

...

the the the power of of collective

...

reception somehow and figuring things out together as

...

is paramount do

...

individuals have any kind of power when it comes to

...

the shifting, seemingly,

...

corporate

...

organizational attitudes.

...

Yes. Because I've never seen an organization do anything. I've probably seen people do things.

...

I honestly

...

And

...

the other thing news if you you look at with big things like that, it can help to have a

...

solution so with you. Again, I really want to bring in the person who list on the flat next door and just stop that thing.

...

I think if at least for the least thing you can in in a solution focused way, if with everything you do, you look at does this take me towards or away from

...

And if you do everything with this takes me towards the direction I want to go and or the general kind of thing I'm trying to achieve. No matter how good your decision making is, it's at least not

...

completely off and over time, we'll shift in the right direction. But definitely yes.

...

I'm on the side of each individual

...

doing things.,

...

what do you think the power of individuals?

...

Absolutely on same page,

...

I think

...

you

...

don't necessarily need

...

eighty percent of the people to be on the same side.

...

You do need some people to change the way

...

we're are looking at things.

...

And and

...

I think

...

it's never

...

an individuals

...

work.

...

But it is an individual's leadership.

...

That actually moves

...

the world.

...

This

...

requirement

...

ambition

...

task is led by two people, the

...

the

...

the global

...

champion

...

of cop twenty five and cop twenty six,

...

those two guys actually moving the whole world, and they already have

...

about

...

thirty percent

...

of

...

humanity on board

...

and about fifty percent of the Gdp of the world on board.

...

That's what they've been doing for the last year.

...

Now that's leadership,

...

and it's not about them, and maybe we don't know their names.

...

But

...

but the world is changing how that pace. Now if it's only them, then it doesn't work, you need have one through the humanity

...

coming on board.

...

So you you you we you need to do collective action.

...

But I think in indeed individual do a leadership

...

changes everything.

...

This is the Global studio

...

with

...

And.

...

And we are talking about

...

ways in which we the collective we can radically

...

collaborate

...

so that we still have a planet

...

on which we can continue to disagree.

...

If you'd like to disagree, or maybe even agree

...

or maybe even just draw our question,

...

please raise your hand, and we'll drag you up on stage and make sure that

...

that you get your you get your your time

...

before we

...

before we you wrap up.

...

Lessons are really, you know,

...

that sometimes painful.

...

And

...

we ...the they collectively are not into

...

painful lessons where kind of ...kind

...

of tried to to avoid them as much as possible, but then it turns out

...

that in order to get happy,

...

you first need to find

...

meaning

...

in your life. Otherwise, it doesn't really matter how

...

successful

...

powerful of your

...

if you're doing it purely for the

...

success in the power,

...

they ...the meaning

...

allude you.

...

Have been what have been some of the

...

the more interesting or inspiring examples that you guys have seen,

...

of

...

individuals

...

finding

...

meaning

...

in their work and then realizing that

...

in order, to find meaning you actually have to find

...

other people.

...

I I don't see

...

the possibility

...

of

...

doing it any other way.

...

I think sacked

...

was the one who said,

...

the

...

how is in the others?

...

Shell is other people as wrong? Yeah.

...

Thanks.

...

Absolutely.

...

Disagree, and I think

...

hell is in me?

...

I very colours in the mirror. Right?

...

Yes. Absolutely.

...

And i ...and I think

...

life makes sense when it's not about me,

...

And I think it's been proven in Time and Time again.

...

I think every time I I designed my life around my concerns and my meet and

...

it probably becomes senseless.

...

And every time i forget myself, and I get committed to a bigger purpose, and and and we

...

can win instead of me.

...

I think love becomes so fulfilling. I I I think that

...

from a philosophical point of view or i'm an existential point of view and also for my own experience.

...

I don't see it any other way.

...

Leo.

...

I I agree. I think we won

...

like, if you think of a marketplace,

...

you know, offer a of a market in a village in not a cynical sort of this capitalist kind of way. It's everybody

...

bringing something they have,

...

and then you share and exchange, and everybody come kind of goes home with more than neighbor what you know one person that's amazing to motto the other person, has friend

...

someone else's is cheese, and at the end, everybody has an amazing dinner or an amazing lunch. You're forgetting the beer.

...

We should we should add that that layer is actually a serious

...

beer for, and she doesn't know what she's talking about..

...

So, yeah. So I think I think we want to come you who we want to share,

...

We want to see, you know, it's wonderful like you cook for someone and they eat it and I feel food and my laugh water. Eating saying i how awesome is stuff? Tastes better. Isn't it? It's so it's the most. And I think

...

I think we're craving that and, you know, when you're sitting at your little

...

desk,

...

completely isolated,

...

and you're essentially running a find factory. It just does not have the same level of fulfillment doesn't.

...

And you know, how point might be useful to whatever the big is you're trying to do and so on. But I think we need to have Elements

...

because i don't I thoughts the point, fairly.

...

This is a conversation that is going to continue,

...

and we'll get back to this will.

...

Attack or shall we say approach it gently

...

from different directions.

...

As time dresses

...

within then the confines of the Global studio and also within

...

the broader

...

bo,

...

context, if you will, Bummer is

...

a global network of of local partners in many

...

countries around the world,

...

and

...

we are trying to figure out how

...

we can all

...

go about creating a more intentional and intelligent

...

and and positive and interesting

...

future interesting in the in the positive sense of of the word.

...

My guests today have been learn mother another the

...

country partner for

...

Sheila.

...

And Leo aloha, who is

...

an educator matter, language

...

on matters,

...

organizational,

...

and cultural

...

And there are many other questions that I wanted to ask you guys, but

...

we must leave this for another time.

...

Thank you for coming into obama.

...

Thank you to our listeners.

...

And

...

if

...

anybody out there has any questions or comments,

...

at the close of the show,

...

You can shoot me an email ralph of tam mount at Obama

...

dot global,

...

and we'll pick up the conversation.

...

Thank you,.

...

Thank you,,

...

and we will catch you again we for too long. And

...

next week, and more less the same time, another episode of the Bohr

...

global studio. Catch you later.

...

Thank you.

...

Thank you.

Fortune Cookie