The Future of Entertainment is Interactive

The Future of Entertainment is Interactive.

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...

See

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and

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youtube.

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Inspiration.

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Slash.

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Brilliance that comes from

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nowhere and eliminates the chosen mind of the brilliant genius

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while Angels homo attractive tune

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that blessed

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visitation by the users as they look kindly upon.

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The toil artist,

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except that's all nonsense, Of course,

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as lovely as it is to have an image of music,

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preferably a favorably predisposed

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one looking over one's shoulder.

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The truth is that

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creativity comes from between our ears, and its rhoads light in hours and days

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and months of work.

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The painter and photographer chuck closed summed up nicely.

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Inspiration is for Amateurs. He said, the rest of us just show up and get to work.

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So here at work on the creative farm, pruning someone really growth

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with me are program regular,

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writer director paul,

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just recovering from honesty cough, not the virus, not the virus people.

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And Adrian Ko composer a musician.

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And owner to labels of

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experimental music,

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and we'll be doing our best

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to come to the core of what inspiration is or is not

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where it comes from or doesn't

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And whether or not anyone talking

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about waiting for inspiration is not just

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simply

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not so keen on putting in the hard work because

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there is a second part to the in quotation. From chuck close,

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and it's sort of happy with meaning really.

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He said you sign onto a process

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and see where it takes you.

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Gentlemen.

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Welcome to the creative again

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hello hi, Ralph..

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How is inspiration related to effort.

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Other than that,

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famous edison quotes about per,

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and how is discovery?

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The product

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of effort and notes the other way around.

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Well, you know,

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I think given you know, like to there's two schools and broad this. There's the like, David Lynch for

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around waiting for the catch the fish is they helpful.

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And it's really about being event is possible and being some kind of conduit it and not forcing the idea.

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I mean, i guess, you're page like chuck close, you it's a physical act, and

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just staring at a black canvas all day is probably

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not very conducive. Though it's not gonna get it painted as a

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No. But if you're thinking of an different film or you won't looking for that hook to start

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a whole process rolling,

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Sometimes I I do think, you know, at the moment, I've seen a bit like this I'm feeling

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a bit kind of

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jade, and actually, it's it's like slightly lazy this this also, you know, sometimes by

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lying fall, I often use

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that analogy, which is more like, you know, I don't know. Compared of to a pride field is really asked ...You

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know I think sometimes it's like, when you particularly worked, done a lot of work,

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I like to just sort of do nothing for a while,

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and

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slowly kind of seed start to present themselves. However, I do think as well.

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Is true. You know, some of the best musicians have ever met. They don't talk about genius. They just say, I've just spoke sometimes three years old. Instrument. So,

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you know, it's so ...it's when go the point where they're so bored with it it it's almost like medicine and, you know, it's not impressive to them anymore. It's very impressive to other people in hearing their girl mother better.

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So, you know, so I guess I'm I'm I'm actually saying that think there's that there's a part for both depending on

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where you're at what you're doing.

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For take a ball.

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Yeah. I I I liked very much the in the quote about the this idea that you you you sign on to a process.

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And I I think that's for me the key to

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whatever one

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gets in terms of moments of inspiration

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as it's a it's a pretty serious commitment to a process.

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Now that process may include

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times where you're

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watching tv v

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and or staring out the window.

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Because you've got nothing and you have no idea where it go

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or

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inspiration can come

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out of a kind of, you know, chaotic theory in the rehearsal room, for example,

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where

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ideas are about thing around off of multiple people and things start snap.

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But I I

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I generally would say that this

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this is it ...this is what we're speaking about the the realm of of the of

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the mystery.

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And

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where inspiration comes from and how it arrives.

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The

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generally, this is a a very mysterious thing.

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And I would say, the only thing that I can

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think about that is for me consistently part about inspiration

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is going back to something else said before, which is about interest.

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If you're interested

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in what you're doing,

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you will

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keep marching and we will keep hunting,

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and you will keep searching and you have patience.

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Because you're committed to

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to the process because at the end of the day, it's still interesting to you. It's also madden.

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And I would also say that inspiration

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is also quite often a

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a kind of jealous god

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and

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I have often found in

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when you're at the crafting

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level

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of making a peach not on the

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inspiration. Like, oh, I know I what I want to make a piece about. But when you're actually making the beast,

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it seems to me that that inspiration often comes

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in that situation

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out of crisis.

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And that's

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that's in crisis comes

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is part of the overall construction of making theater because of deadlines,

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and it's this horrible deadline where there's gonna be a live audience waiting to watch it.

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And experience it. And this this is a built in crisis with which gets worse and worse as time progresses.

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And through the course of making the peace where you're searching for the inspiration to crack the piece open to make it work and you're frustrated and not working.

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And you've got some crap ideas up there, some good, some bad,

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and you're pulling your hair out and you're looking for the inspiration, which is gonna unlock it.

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And I often find that it comes from

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moments of really pure crisis where you finally surrender, I have no idea.

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Have no idea how to do this.

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And then you go forward. And that leap in the dark

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I think for me

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is

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is at the the heart of

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of inspiration?

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And there's a quote that I found today, which I also thought I feel is

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felt true to me from from Ray Brad, the great American science fiction writers.

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He said

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inspiration

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comes from a lack.

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So it's

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it's a lack that gives us inspiration.

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Somebody missing.

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So he was saying, like, well, I've never been on a spaceship and I never been to Mars.

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But

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I wrote about it.

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Because I have I lack the experience of it.

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And that was very interesting. I like this as a as a ...because

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I often find in in my craft when I'm making something, it's that lack.

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I lack something,

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and I'm hunting for it, and

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through that lack

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and that desire are to to to fill in,

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inspiration

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sometimes comes I'm gonna say always only sometimes.

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Oh it's an excuse to learn or to imagine.

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Yeah. I I think so I I agree with

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hold that actually. I mean, I think there was a famous david Boeing quote that ...he

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said, you know,

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when you're looking to start something

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the feeling that you should have is like, when you're out, you just walk out

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and just for that bit where your feet can't touch the bottom,

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that kind of sense

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for,

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you know, feeling that you're just leaving solid ground and and your engine kind of a

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And I think, yeah, that that kind of sense of

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uncertainty

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and,

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you know,

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I think, you know, being humble as well to, like, you know, realizing yeah that you don't know what you're doing and that opens up a lot more possibilities than

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sometimes if you have a very definite

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idea, and you kind of impose that idea very rigorously,

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I mean, you know, again, that is also a very beautiful way of working and depending on what it is and

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kind of contributing myself as the say things which again is because part of the ...kind

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of be a lot, you know, there is no logic any of this and no pattern. I mean, you can create patterns.

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You can create patterns that are amazing just by every everyday going. Same space for twenty years

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doing the same thing thing other times, you can go in a room, not knowing what is gonna happen next

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And in that instance,

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the same,

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you know, something that equally

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magical can come out. So those two things are almost like powder opposite, And I think

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you know, quite often. I feel that you're you're you're moving somewhere in the middle of those two poles,

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which is definitely where I feel at the moment, you know, where you're

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you know, you're not ...I'm not pushed up against any deadlines. So, you know, the routine of the last has been very,

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repetitive, which, you know, sometimes has been good for sometimes time.

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It's ...you know, it's

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not being

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I'm just starting to feel with

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the root not the last year I wanna break out a it. That I'm feeling almost like,

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you know, the isolation

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is now

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and the way we get information

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or I wanna get out in the world again, and, you know, have all the messy randomness that

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life

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throws you, which I find is the

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thing that is that ...if I really about

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Yeah. Is that a difference, between the artist and the hack,

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that

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humility

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regardless of how good you are, you remain humble.

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I mean, you know, I mean, there's some people who are very good and they know it and

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they're not humble and

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you know, something are very good an hour. I mean,

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I think yeah. If you if you're if you're trying to keep pushing into places that you don't know,

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you're you're always gonna be in the dark some degree. I mean, I think crap, we talked like this before having some kind of firm craft based on

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you know, some form of practice gives you

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something that even when you haven't got that far in the belly or that great idea that is totally, you know,

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sort of pre you you can just practice the craft. You can go back to the basics.

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You know, you can start with the basic materials and you can, you know, just ...I mean, I think, you know, sometimes think

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when I'm doing music film or Tv,

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which is at the other half of what I do and usually, there is that there are deadlines. So, you know, it's amazing, you know, that course says when tomorrow morning, you've got twenty five players waiting for you and you haven't got any notes in a page. It's amazing now

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that kind of knowing that there's that

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away well to the point who have three hundred people

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sitting in the house

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expecting to hear something amazing..

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Wow. Maybe. Yeah. But I mean, I think ...I

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think, yeah. That that that kind of feeling is something that

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I

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have, you know,

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have, you know, i've unknown quite a bit like, I think that that kind of works sometimes as well.

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Reminds me of take a cable of his of park,

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and i i think which is where there's a craft where

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you know, there's is a kind of certain

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thing that you're doing that is got ...an already defined

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shape in terms of you're working to someone else's narrative and by the nature of of of what you're doing it's collaborative.

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So you're kinda just trying make something that actually,

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you know, I I see it as, like, you know, getting my wood and and actually just sort of saw the right length to together sometimes to make

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you know, the right functional

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piece, which sounds is incredibly dry and like, the music gonna be not very interesting to listen to, which I hope it isn't the case, but

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I think it's that thing. That's that's my sense of

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when I don't have those great ideas. I just go back to good work.

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You know, what

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before we ...just ...just before we came on the, I was wondering

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to what degree the word

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inspiration had been

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Shanghai had been

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opted made to serve as a convenient cover.

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Sort of

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carpet under which we brush a multitude of pi.

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Yes. I I I do know good at

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borrow great artist

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steal,

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which is graphic in your.

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But in an age when, everything is political. Again,

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how is the convenience of

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inspiration and talking about inspiration?

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I'm disguise for something other this guy's for something where you just go

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and make something

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and hope nobody notices

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Yeah. Well, this this speaks

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in a dark way to our to our moment,

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which is

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which is filled with

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filled with horrible strong men who believe that they are the chosen one to save the nation or what have you,

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See, have you multiplying? By the mushrooms after is right? Yeah.

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And so this the whole ...the whole narrative

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of this kind of inspiration, which I think you're kinda pointing at. Is this

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this idea that there's such a thing as a genius

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who only he can know

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and he works in mysterious ways and somehow speaks directly to

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god or the gods,

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and so he's not one of us, and it's like, very kind of anti democratic and they we this

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way of thinking about

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inspiration

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when, you know, in my from my perspective inspiration

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comes out of collaboration. It comes from other people

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comes from unexpected places,

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and

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it's, I think, for me,

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inspiration

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come from a place of humility, not arrogance.

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And it seems to me that our age

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is one very much of arrogance.

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And and a kind of false certainty,

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which frankly speaking is quite terrifying.

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And And I also think too that

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there's

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the imagination

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or

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inspiration

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has been,

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unfortunately brushed up too close to innovation

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that other much abused words of our age

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we don't have a better one..

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But I I just do not like that with..

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Yeah.

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And the like ...so

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...because ...you know, in innovation, there's also this

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myth somehow behind it that innovation is also

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you know, and

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a lightning strike from the gods.

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And

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I think that is a myth that, of course, a lot of, corporations,

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you a self serving push.

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But

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down here in the in the the theater trenches where I work,

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it's a messy and bloody business and

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inspiration you're tracing it all the time,

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but I think that the the currency

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of inspiration is actually failure.

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And

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not gigantic failure, perhaps, although that too,

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but the little small failures, the daily failures that you go into the room and you just

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you fail and you fail,

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but you can try to hope to fail greatly,

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You know, really make a disaster.

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Because then maybe inspiration will come because I think about integrations wants to be dependent

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in this way.

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That is the offering to the angry gods.

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Yeah. Somehow,

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but I'm an old pagan, I think, somehow because I'm in the theater. So,

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you can never get away from the Pagan root. It's it's

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what it is.

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Yeah. I have that work for you.

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Sorry that pull. No no. That will see you mate. Oh, okay.

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Yeah. I mean, I think court, you know, paul's really right that

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you know, this idea of

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you have in the idea and it been, you know, viewers and therefore, you are genius.

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Are like, I

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becoming ...no

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at becoming ...well I happened been a long time outdated, you know, it's like,

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anything you do is dissolved so many other people's work stiff not the point teaching, which almost is when I work, there's so many musicians have involved in it.

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You know, you are basically

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in a lineage if you're lucky

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of an idea that you've happen to grab on in some cases and, you know, you turn it into your own

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form of expression. But, you know, think that

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this is something that is yours. I think this is where the arrogant steps in.

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I when I was listening something

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a scientist from From university week because she's talking about memes

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and how

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you know, there's these different ages of memes, obviously, language and

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religion with some early means and,

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we've entered in an age now where, you know, she's arguing that there's a new thing called trees,

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which is

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you know,

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we've always ...I think we think that we're in control and actually,

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you know, the more we enter these big networks

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digital network,

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I think we're starting to realize

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that we're not, and,

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you know, there are people at the moment who Are using these network through influence is quite successfully sometimes,

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but she was arguing that actually, the machinery is now

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decide things for us. So we're not even,

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you know, the illusion that we are deciding or we're having the idea

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the machine just starting to have the ideas. So an algorithm more decides, you know, what we'll feed information to us and she calls and trees.

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And this whole idea of

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what happens to

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inspiration or societies of inspiration in a world where algorithms

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feeding his ideas as much as,

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you know, the real world. You know? I mean, I guess you you get you get ...you

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get inspiration inspiration from a particular diet,

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and this is this is where it is drawn, and it shall be drawn from nothing else. Is that wallace that's what she's talking about?

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I think it's just, you know, it's almost the of this idea. That we're talking about the idea of control and genius and

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these old

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ideas of how are is created or how ideas

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are a birth

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and and q is just trying to argue that we're now in world where

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the technology already,

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you know, a four that is out there shaping our ideas for it. I mean, we know that. I mean, it's been it's been done in an negative way. I mean, someone wrote out for me recently.

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I was on a little bit of a diet against Google and she spent fifty minutes right. And i me the Google algorithm on four sides of paper.

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At the end of it, I just like you that's really impressive, but all that's doing is selling this stuff, you know?

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And you trying show the the great ...you know, ideas within this algorithm. But these our ribbons are or the, you know, the complication

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of

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Applied thought processes in it.

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But these algorithms are becoming something that in is affecting

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alright is. So like ...I

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guess it's just it's something that I hadn't even thought about. I mean, but are we now

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collaborate with the machines, other machines or the algorithms

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now part of this

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fanatic

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sense set of ideas that, you know, are taken or stolen,

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are we now collaborating with machines even if unwilling or know what challenges is which task is well Right.

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What about

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inspiration?

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With about taking inspiration out of,

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or from

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rebellion

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against the sorts of forces.

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Yeah. I think that that ...that's kind of artists

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jump.

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The job

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some degree,

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You know, there's always shifting patterns of how to decide your organized itself as different technologies.

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And, you know, I guess,

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your job is to

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push against the whatever the control

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system

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is or whatever the normal way that, you know, we are being encouraged think or perceive things. The job is

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you know, to try and shake those bars and, you know, whether you do that by taking a piece of technology and doing

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with it. That's what it was intended. I mean, I think I've said this previously, but it always amazes me that the error of recorded music

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after for

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where we have, you know, tape

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Obviously,

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you know, the invention of tape where you could record musicians in a room and then that tape could be

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sending to a black because it gonna be reckless. That's

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All a lot of the technology was was created during the second world war. So then this

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you know, the machinery that became part of the great process post war

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was was, you know, that that time when there was huge amounts of budget put into

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development, you know, Their recently with the vaccine

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at the end of the war that all this technology left hanging in the around, And, of course, you know, I guess, partly these companies find ways to refer it and make more money. But I love the idea that the artists take,

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you know, things that originally,

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you know, meant to be used during in war, and you turn it into

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this whole new art form, you know, recorded music host,

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because without the war, that stuff wouldn't have happened. You know? Because the technology you wouldn't have been there, something else would have happened instead but, you know, it's a kind of unusual lineage to think of that you know, elvis wouldn't have happened without about all the beatles wouldn't have happened without

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you know, anyway, you kept my point. Yes. Well, yeah. Well, they they would have performed that the cupboard and fans would have

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loved them and that may may have been it.

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Call

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is

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the autistic practice now intrinsically

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tied in with technology.

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Oh, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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For better or worse,

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That ship has failed.

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How on

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we

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we are totally immersed in technology.

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As individual artists.

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You know,

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I I work on a laptop.

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I I've got a smartphone phone in my pocket.

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I'm

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chatting with you on I don't know, four or five different apps.

...

Yeah.

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You know,

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to Adrian point, the

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the data that's pouring

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through these devices into my brain is is

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curated by

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machines

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and algorithms.

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So we're dancing with it

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like it or not.

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Of course,

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I I feel this kind of schizophrenia because

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when I go into the room,

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and I'm,

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of course, I haven't had much opportunity in the last year and a half, but thinking back in the asked when I did have this opportunity to go in the room and work with dancers or or actors.

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It's

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it's still this ancient thing.

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The theater is an actor and an audience

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and in rehearsal that first audiences is me.

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The director.

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And

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this is this elemental

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ancient thing

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that has so many colors in it.

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And somehow, technology can't

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quite wrap its hand around it.

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And even though what we do in the room is deeply influenced by technology,

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I still think there's something essential there

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that the technology and algorithms will never be able to quite

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control.

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And I think that's why the live act

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is always

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and has always been

...

the

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how the potential for

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radical subversion or or radical ideas

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Or because it's somehow an expression that's kind of ultimate freedom

...

that you you can't stop

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the what the actor says or how he says it. And and and in what subtext he uses

...

So

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and this is ...like ...I work in Poland and and in the the former communist countries, of course, the theater was heavily censored.

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And so the arts developed the veeder arts, especially developed this whole

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mode of

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you did the play as was approved by the sensor, and then you performed the other play.

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Which is the meta or the play

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that was the secret play, which was happening simultaneously

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with the real play.

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And the audience knew that this was the the real play, and that it wasn't the one that had been improved.

...

Correct. And and the audience was that was delighted in the deaths that we're going on. Which they were in they were in on the

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on the on the secret.

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Exactly. They were in on the secret, and they they were

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they were deeply responsive to that. How how

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imagination and inspiration had woven

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these

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these two forms together. The secret play in the real play.

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And

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I don't know. I'm my work is getting deeper and deeper into digital

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realm amazing

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doing work online now and and presenting work online.

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And it's a big step for me, and

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I have no idea ultimately what I'm doing.

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But this is where we are now

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And, like, with everything, it takes ...it takes in a gibbs.

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So, you know, I I feel like it's somehow a the surrender of the elemental live

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for sure it is,

...

but it does open a lot of other doors, which are really intriguing.

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In terms of audience and in terms of participation and in terms of the visual world.

...

So, yeah. But, you know, I think that that the arts ...the

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arts of

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are always antarctica.

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At the at the end of the day,

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and and they're somehow disrespectful to power.

...

And so

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your technology is the power

...

Now

...

clearly,

...

And so I think we will be in revolt against it.

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And I think we probably already are

...

sub it

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to your own

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and.

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I think so.

...

Training interesting.

...

How does my my

...

pan because people are, of course, experimenting and trying different things and different modalities are working and delivering and what have you been?

...

One of

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more

...

interesting examples I've seen just recently was

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the English in the musician five Danger field.

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How can you go wrong with the name like that?

...

Anyway, his ...he started to publish

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work in progress.

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He says I was always playing

...

the in progress tracks to my friends, then I wondered why I didn't just treat the whole world like that.

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Release stuff as I'm working on it. Even if I know I want to come back to it

...

and polish it later, or do a different version.

...

He's now a one person broadcaster.

...

And I mean, I for love

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to lift the the lead.

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On people's creative process is this kind of

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openness

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with your creative process

...

maybe a new business model for some artists

...

who actually may

...

gain more from the technology than they give up to it.

...

I mean, I like I like the idea. I mean, I guess it's ...it's

...

been around for a while. I mean, you know, you're a lot of the jazz records

...

few years ago, well is a kind of new

...

a new market and exercise a new format where people would just release and,

...

you know, myriad versions of, you know, different jazz tunes, but you would see,

...

you know, have it out and there just be one you know, a few sessions and you get all the different takes.

...

And so, you know I think people have been playing around with this I think.

...

I think, you know, the trouble ...a lot of what happens with digital technology, it it enables

...

a degree of ...control

...

and, you know, you don't have to commit, you know, you can always erase. You can always go back,

...

so unless you put very firm constraints

...

on what you're doing,

...

the work loses that emergency of a gesture or

...

I mean, I'm I'm hearing a lot of music currently in London that is going back to just people

...

in rooms with guitars.

...

You know, with drums

...

had a huge amount of energy.

...

And

...

after this period that we've been in, it seems totally a natural progression even though,

...

in some ways, it's going backwards to another time, but, but, you know, again, and I've heard recording is made over a lot whether it's it's just ...you know, they're not trying to make things perfect. They've almost done the opposite. They wanna make it as

...

degraded and imperfect and full of

...

that's noise and have everything recorded on one mic

...

and, you know, it's the

...

that of what digital

...

what I laptop allows to do, which is, you know, piece together

...

sound and to infinitely edit and process it until you've got a perfect sheet.

...

So that ...where are the color pistols?

...

Yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean,

...

I mean, the Covid is

...

you didn't think with with thousands about that the other day this them because this is the other finger of inspiration which you haven't touched on, you know, the idea as well that your reaction to a world and there's a temporal the work that you doing. So exactly when the section text don't god save the queen.

...

It was also the silver In England, which was like this hideous

...

fest is,

...

you know, the royal family being you know, florida's and

...

something around on the fancy because union Jackson jack

...

everywhere a bit like they're trying to do again in this country.

...

And

...

you know, the fact that they released it as a as as an front to all of that.

...

So the art was really punk pineapples was always

...

marketing. Yeah. And it was the ...you know, you they you're responding to the knack and doing something that really

...

no that situation is nothing, you know, like mark class. You wear some of those things and yeah., you know, playing a media and at the time when it was a radical thing to do, and

...

now, obviously, there's millions of people and it's become ...and

...

you know, not to bring people for that. But, you know, there's there's just a lot of knowing

...

about how people, you know, they in how this stuff works. You know?

...

This is the creative farm.

...

My name Ralph, and I'm

...

around the the back of the shed, trimming the underground

...

with Adrian Cooker and

...

paul jitter

...

and

...

as a tradition

...

because

...

we must open the microphone for

...

from people's

...

random comments,

...

segue

...

suggestions, and

...

pearls of wisdom,

...

and

...

we have a regular guest

...

and friend of the show, Erica lurking

...

around the back of the shed,

...

and I'll

...

I'll also

...

drag

...

bunny up

...

if I i

...

And

...

and

...

now that the app is working somewhat much slowly, but one

...

if I may.

...

Now, please don't feel under any obligation to come up and grab the mic.

...

But if you do, it will be.

...

So here, what you have to

...

to chuck into the pot.

...

One of the things that is kind of basic

...

to

...

anyone who understands the creative process is the need for constant

...

curiosity.

...

It is the basic component

...

in all creative endeavor, I think,

...

constant

...

requests, if you will,

...

it is are the root of the process from most creators.

...

And and

...

it continues

...

in the background at all times. If you're well, it's something you have switched on.

...

So detector.

...

For instance for, you know, you imagine a writer of a detective fiction he's working in walking down the street.

...

Already evening in the light

...

of a long street light that flicker on and off and and off again,

...

he finds a little tickets

...

ticket stub, and

...

this becomes a scene

...

from which you can grow

...

a chapter

...

ideas come

...

when you least expect them. It seems and

...

you have to be tuned in.

...

With your curiosity and ten eye up

...

all the time.

...

So is is inspiration perhaps

...

the result

...

of such curiosity.

...

What's that relationship like?

...

Well,

...

I I think ...you

...

know, I think the neuro neuroscientist say that we have needs brain and

...

so much of our

...

culture and particular information age we live in now pushes us into

...

one side the brain. I always get it wrong with the right over the left

...

it's it that dev distinction has long since since been being put

...

out the back away. Put away. Yes.

...

Okay. Well,

...

forget my science I not

...

but

...

I think

...

I think that basically,

...

anyway, when we are doing things that have a strong

...

structural

...

systemic

...

conceptual logical

...

thought process to it. I just know.

...

And I don't know where or which

...

part or an anatomy the brain

...

is correlates to you, but I can feel our shit. You know, Like, when I'm

...

just sort working on music and

...

i'm which in a very

...

ongoing way and just that mean johnny out attempt to get both.

...

It's very different thing

...

sitting and planning something and can actually

...

create it. And I think

...

some of these

...

seeds that you talk about a when you bypass.

...

I mean, I think we use too much of the conceptual sides of the brain and subconscious,

...

which a thing is ...I mean, back the David Lynch analogy of catching the fish, This is what he's on the about and he ...you know, he does about meditation as and means of of diving into this

...

deep place where, you know, these ideas or these little fish can be caught, but only

...

when i else is still, if you're busy trying to conceptualize and

...

frame and think of the future and, you know, busy in the head all the time.

...

Those little little genius

...

little fish

...

off be cool. So that's always how I received it

...

in terms of

...

stop in certain aspects of the brain that are overused

...

and that we're trained, you know, to use a lot in terms of how creators and going into this other place.

...

Which ...I

...

mean, I don't remember i I agree with this or I I don't really have the ...I

...

believe ...And don't have the

...

training to know where this is true. But,

...

you know ...well, again, David Lynch talks, I had that about field when you meditate is the

...

unified energy field.

...

So he says that the quantum and the

...

newton tone and this is where it meets and and, you know, you kind of by many and to that place,

...

and that is where comes from. I don't know whether that's true. I'm should throwing it out that I katie can you Can you

...

perceive it without understanding it is that the process?

...

Definitely. I think so I think that's kind of what we been talking about some of the logical

...

aspects of of creative work and something starting in Out i i've think that's of the dark the dow of creative work is not ...that is at the dark of creative work that you can describe is not the truth.

...

Yeah. It's no sense and it's not something we've done very well

...

talking about it. But that thing of yeah, When you do talk about it, you're ...attempting

...

spoke about something

...

that

...

isn't a intellectual thing, so it's not really about words,

...

But when hear music or we see a play or you know, we can sense the

...

the the kind of quality of that

...

thought or the the that imagination in it so we can sense it

...

when we when we look at something, Or hear something. It's

...

So paul,

...

serve

...

stillness and

...

curiosity

...

and allowing enough time.

...

All those add up to inspiration perhaps is that would those be building blocks?

...

Absolutely.

...

I I I really think it at the end of the day, it curiosity

...

or interest is the the word that I I prefer

...

is that

...

you have to be interested

...

and the

...

the the

...

the interesting thing about interest

...

is that

...

I always feel it's it is the one thing

...

for sure that you can't fake to yourself.

...

And

...

I find quite often and in when you're making work, it's very easy to to believe your own bullshit and to dilute yourself.

...

And to

...

lie to yourself.

...

I mean, this is true in life, I think it's very easy to do those things.

...

But when you get around to interest

...

You just can't pretend you interested.

...

You're us in a sustained way. Right? And this a stage. You just can't do it. You know, immediately you're board,

...

and you know you're faking it, you know, you're

...

you're pretending

...

and you don't get anything from it.

...

So cultivating

...

interest,

...

cultivating your interest in something is is they think essential to the creative process.

...

Mean I would say it's like the fun it's to the fundamental. It's the absolute

...

bottom of the pyramid that you're standing on. Is it so is being interested

...

being in inspired or do you become

...

inspired because you are interested?

...

I think you become inspired because you're interested.

...

I do. Of course, You know, it's a chicken or rank kind a question, but but I I still would come down on the side of interest

...

because because inspiration is so random.

...

And

...

it comes from so many strange places,

...

whereas interest is something that you can truly cultivate.

...

And you can really work on interest

...

and

...

and interest, you know,

...

it's like there's a river of things flowing by in life or or or through technology or whatever. You're looking at a stream

...

ten million leaves,

...

and

...

If you're not interested,

...

then

...

you won't pick out the ones

...

that lead to inspiration.

...

It'll just wash over you. You

...

because you weren't interested

...

you were ready,

...

and that's that's sort of shakespeare. I think, clue about readiness being the key

...

that ...well, so it's very important of Eastern

...

concept as well

...

when the when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Right?

...

Exactly.

...

And so and and interest and and readiness or or

...

are

...

totally intertwined,

...

And

...

and again, these are also qualities that you can

...

develop.

...

You can make yourself

...

ready,

...

and you can cultivate your interests.

...

And I think this is ...when

...

I ...when I look back on, like, how successful pieces got made.

...

It's remarkable because it just it's so ...the the path was so crooked.

...

There was no straight line through it.

...

Sometimes the pieces, the the first

...

inspiration for the piece

...

started years before the piece actually, got

...

formally started.

...

Sometimes it's like that.

...

So I I really do believe in the in in in interest because as I said before, I do feel that that

...

the hardest thing

...

is

...

to kind of own up to this this

...

maximum of one of my heroes, better

...

russell

...

who who says, you know, he he published this beautiful list of ten commandments. And and the first one is do not feel absolutely certain of anything.

...

And

...

somehow,

...

I find, like,

...

even in even in my belief in and readiness and and in interest

...

that

...

that's if you take that commandment seriously,

...

like, that really opens up the world.

...

He says she said another

...

beautiful thing on party.

...

And towards the five occupation of a Crocodile

...

is waiting.

...

Yes. Which kind of goes to

...

towards describing the a similar sort of

...

chilled readiness. Right?

...

Or patience

...

patience, yeah

...

how long do you do you keep projects bubbling away? Evan ...they just

...

stay the back of your head forever, and then one day you sit down

...

and write it down and bang there it is. You just kind of keep shipping chipping away, Or does it really depend? And it's

...

so different. I think when you're in rooms with musicians,

...

and you performing

...

and making the music

...

or stay improvise and obviously,

...

then you're making making decisions and responding like a flow of ideas at own

...

So I've be a buying stuff in

...

even in that moment.

...

But then there's other times where you're not working, maybe they

...

way you're not in a room,

...

and you haven't had a deadline where Yesterday

...

years. I mean, you know, I have

...

I was working on a piece music other day, and it it's kind of happened quite quickly, but it was recording to may I don't need to know I mean, they were ...maybe

...

seven eight, nine years old, Some of these recordings

...

i ...so

...

And, you know, this things, I mean, it's talking about,

...

you know, the selling serendipity stuff, which I think is very much that readiness is is is really an important part, even if you know, get serendipity unless you're ready for it, right. Yeah.

...

And then you also have these cosmic jokes. Well, I don't if a cosmic pain you sometimes wear you're kind of feeling really ready and you're sitting doing what you can of is ...you've got this idea and you you can hear this thing. And I ...I've happened to a couple of times in different spaces I've lived in, you start writing a piece of music and about,

...

you know, weekends that you realize that you've just picked up

...

some frequencies

...

in your environment, and you're just copying them. It might be the sound of the boiler It might be a noise outside, but is just, you know, the sound of your environment,

...

and you're busy thinking you've,

...

you know, kind of got this idea, and actually, you're just

...

replicating

...

a sounds is ...the

...

they might be very quiet, but there sounds of the actual space that you there is that there's a two hundred hertz going on that in in the room next door and you pick it up. Yeah. And ...and it becomes the

...

it's very it becomes the ...yeah, The the kind of the starting point for piece music, and then suddenly,

...

when you spend weeks, recognize that you realize how it began. So it can be very pros.

...

But, you know, haven't said that modern young,

...

who's composer that I am, you know, it's obviously quite very important over.

...

He he gave on his chickens things on

...

main of main folks America.

...

I can't remember what that is mate. But all the

...

almost fifty hertz or sixty something. So, yeah, everything the ratio and that. So the idea was that all the humans and the instruments that they're playing these

...

drone pieces were all tunes. So know were there were products of the maze

...

they they were race. They were ...they were a whole number ratio tones

...

over

...

of that home. I had no idea i'm not young.

...

So.

...

Yeah. Really have some crazy ideas. I tell you what.

...

This is fantastic. Look great idea that you're kind of doing a piece in tune with whole electrical network of of of a country by America.

...

There's something a beautiful about it. Yeah. So

...

Yeah. There there's all sorts of

...

is also serve

...

attempting

...

and paying attention and patience and speaking it speaking of being in the harmony with technology. Right?

...

Very different to the ones that we're encouraged to be in harmony many at the moment somewhat yes.

...

The creative process

...

it has been

...

described

...

and and quite ugly, I think,

...

and by many researchers and is equal

...

as having a number of set stages

...

from initial ideas and insights through incubation and molding and

...

remodeling of those ideas and insights to finally

...

application and delivery of whatever the finished thing

...

maybe we know that

...

that process is different for everyone that artists and creators joy.

...

A multitude of different tools

...

and jedi mind tricks

...

to help them generate ideas in.

...

Workable concepts.

...

So now it's time to spill the beans gentlemen.

...

So us about

...

how you keep the energy

...

and the output up,

...

tell that's about your Jedi mind tricks.

...

The jedi mind tricks.

...

Yeah.

...

Well, one ...one of them

...

one thing I I often think about is is there's a quote, which I don't know if it's true. It is attributed to Chicago.

...

And Picasso said, supposedly,

...

I don't know if this is True. That

...

when he ...he

...

described how he ...how he starts a painting.

...

So he has a blank canvas.

...

And he says, I approach the canvas and I I make my first

...

stroke.

...

And then he says, and the rest of the painting is correcting that mistake.

...

Oh, that's extraordinary.

...

And

...

and this

...

I I think about that quote all the time and I love me because i I i I don't know if it's true. I don't know if he actually says that.

...

But maybe it doesn't matter. But but let

...

That's part of my I'd say,

...

bag of bag of tricks in the sense

...

is

...

to

...

embrace mistakes and and and

...

small failures or or even big ones.

...

Because sometimes it it seems to me that that's the way in, like that mistake is the key. It's the key.

...

That let's ...that let's you through through and find a way into the piece.

...

And

...

I

...

it's funny because it sort of flies in the face of like, oh, I've found a great idea, and then you did your great idea and you were right.

...

You know, Like, that seems like that's the narrative.

...

And right oh but this is this narrative that is

...

that is somewhat forced upon us.,

...

you know, we celebrate the great successes of

...

the know the great stars.

...

And if I remember correctly,

...

one of the

...

biological reasons why my old blow eyes

...

was as as greatest singer as he was

...

was that in his younger days when he decided

...

that he wanted to be a great singer, he would

...

swim

...

entire lengths of a poll,

...

an Olympic sized pool underwater holding his breath in order to condition his lungs.

...

So, you know, the work can never get celebrated. It's always the bloody

...

results right?

...

Yeah.

...

Adrian,

...

jedi tricks.

...

Spell Brother.

...

I don't really have any jedi tricks. I think

...

at one point, I did a lot of yoga, and I found that very conducive to just

...

being in a very receptive day and particularly from Five find pretty good.

...

I haven't been

...

doing that for a while, and so

...

that

...

thing that ability to just feel very connected and present in the room, which is really great when you're working with other people in real time.

...

Isn't

...

isn't so strong at the moment. So what am I I don't think I think my gender ...my general powers are quite weak at the moment. I think

...

I think I think we're we're all feeling just like ...I

...

think I've worked kinda had a whole period of four or five years working very attentive on a big. You know, Tv box at project.

...

At the end of that,

...

you know, the it's like quite

...

your credit would because you can kind set

...

something as ended,

...

and

...

and then it's time for new things. And so

...

I mean, my jedi mind tricks are drinking lot a good green tea with that my personal

...

way when I there.

...

I don't know where it actually

...

does anything, but it gives me sort of sense concentrated

...

possibly be something about the ritual of it that, you know you blew it and you.

...

And this is the that you're doing you know, rituals are

...

weird things. You know, they don't have to be

...

here's massive.

...

Spectacular things quite often.

...

You know rituals are

...

rituals are are small and impressive, but they do end up

...

to

...

placing ourselves in

...

a sort of a space that is

...

creative and receptive and

...

continuous and productive.

...

And the plate guys of yourself, I think not the thing. It's it's keeping that

...

playful

...

and not the drinking and green too particularly playful. But, I mean, I think

...

you get into habits,

...

and

...

you have to kind of shake yourself out of them because you become

...

used to sort of

...

keeping things in one way, and it might been production at one point, but there's a point where stock interrupted. So then the game is what's a how I

...

just changed

...

my respects change

...

how I'm doing things so that you enter new frequency range, which you haven't explored.

...

So it's always these things it's like,

...

is it's moving the radio station. So you're not just stuck on one radio station and trying to kinda find

...

the kind of weird white noise dream who was that who was always tuning the radio station?

...

John Case? Yeah. I think so. Off just a little right.

...

John cage I think quite

...

important thank

...

equal too. But ...but,

...

yeah. That that thing. I mean, it was something recent need I was talking from younger and saying that when I was growing up, I quite often heard two radios. That was how I heard music first

...

to radio stations.

...

Not quite tuned in together,

...

and maybe you'd get a third noise as well and,

...

you know, everything's so perfect now. We just get to hear everything,

...

you know, However,

...

poor the same quality or whatever it is that we're streaming.

...

So it's a kinda of faith sense of,

...

you know, something being good often, it's not it's all to soul this perfection.

...

The science degrade that, you know, if you've like spotify

...

I've got no correlation really.

...

The the the the means that, you know, there the way that you get to hear it the ease of and the choice, there's a price paper. I, inside the price

...

that pay for it.

...

Did the price of the fact is not

...

good quality. You know, it's very degraded as in terms of it fidelity, which

...

might not seem important to people listening to music, but I think it's sat Them in the room played them the real thing, and then said this is what you're hearing from Spotify.

...

You've met you know which one that ...well, one of them more more interactive

...

practice things I'd actually

...

same

...

on your youtube.

...

Was

...

a fiddle plan, picking up three violin and saying, well, this one I picked up i'd, you know,

...

whatever

...

basic

...

supermarket

...

for you two hundred bucks.

...

This one I got

...

at a decent music store and it cost, you know, five thousand dollars.

...

And here is that here is the study values I actually use when I play.

...

And, you know, the difference is

...

so obvious even in this ...so

...

impoverished

...

and oral environment that is, you know, the online world of on youtube audio,

...

one of the ...I think one of the side things

...

that

...

we are faced with the day, unfortunately, and this is a

...

broad generalization and that sweeping statement, but it's my show. And and I I know I Know our stage sweeping been believe, if I want to ...is

...

the sort of impoverished

...

of

...

attention to quality

...

of the stuff

...

that we consume.

...

And sometimes it boils into food, but

...

quite often it actually, it works at the level of the path that we consume

...

that is somehow just

...

a sort of a

...

shadow of what it could be

...

in terms of quality, and I'm not talking about

...

not the not talking about style and artistic marriage. There's

...

separate things all altogether, But exactly as we were saying, Adrian, you know, this

...

an trading by definition,

...

you know,

...

to have entire

...

Cd,

...

which on Cd weighs, you know, I little under a bigger gigabyte

...

to have it way about fifty megs, Obviously, you have to throw stuff away. Right?

...

Mhmm

...

Yeah. I mean, it's a sixteen bit recording and I and, you know, the Mp3

...

much the great digital format. Not anyone near that.

...

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I think, you know, it's it it's just hard I think, you know, let radio with me and and the ether and

...

and and the fact that actually,

...

it can be magical thing to be imp place and think blurry, and that's where

...

know someone's that kind of metaphor for how the imagination can work and it's just weird that we're getting sold things that from technology companies that are suppose you representing in

...

fidelity and, you know and actually ...they're not, you know, exactly they is. So it's again a great tricks that been played on us all the time.

...

Which

...

is not really what creativity

...

and the imagination feeds on.

...

Circles with within circles and wheels within wheels.

...

And your last words on on imagination

...

and

...

how to capture it and how to feed it without

...

over feeding it.

...

I don't know if this is related, but it's allowed just a a riff of so what is you was talking about and and what what you were just talking about about

...

the the loss of qualities

...

and

...

and

...

I ...but also, this is somehow related to technology, and sometimes it can be a gift.

...

So

...

I had a friend who

...

was in the recording business.

...

And

...

back in the day, when when

...

the digital revolution was really rolling with mp3 three technology and all the rest,

...

he showed up at my house one day,

...

and said listen to this.

...

And

...

he had the audio tracks.

...

Of

...

the vote ...I'm sorry. The vocal tracks

...

of

...

Marvin Gay.

...

From some of his most famous recordings, he he had just just him singing

...

from these famous tunes.

...

And the ...you could hear on the track.

...

The

...

the the music playing in his headphones.

...

But it was the voice isolated,

...

and it absolutely

...

blew me out on my chair,

...

because

...

I had never

...

imagined what that might sound like.

...

And so sometimes, I think

...

sort of going to inspiration or imagination, it's

...

it's also sometimes to two

...

have this moment where you can peel back the curtain

...

or you can peel away the orchestration and

...

all the

...

accumulation

...

And and sometimes when you have an inspiration, it's to ...it's to be to be witness to a moment like that. When you can listen to Marvin and Gay singing your ear

...

with his voice

...

without anything on it.

...

And

...

I don't know why this came to me, but I I I just wanted to share that

...

Well, this from reminds

...

of

...

particular moment.

...

In Melbourne and many years ago, when I

...

ended up at the backstage,

...

just before Us to Ray born,

...

concert. And, of course, Tv was known as

...

the master of the year.

...

Of the electric guitar, and

...

and I was

...

stunned

...

to

...

witness

...

he playing

...

a barbecue feud on a on an acoustic guitar

...

just as a way to warm up before the gig

...

And there was a guy

...

who

...

was not very confident of the quality of his plane.

...

Yeah.

...

And I think

...

given that, it is the bottom of the eye,

...

and it is getting late over here, and I am has grateful

...

it is time to wanna say, thanks to paul,

...

writer director, and

...

American refugee in Eastern Europe.

...

And

...

Adrian Coca,

...

comparison musicians and

...

experiment

...

in shortage in London

...

and

...

grateful for your time, and

...

we shall see you again

...

or hear you again.

...

On the creative file,

...

next week, same time, ladies and gentlemen, same station. I've always wanted to say that.

...

Good. Thank.

...

Thanks, Drive. Job. You can my everyone.

Fortune Cookie