The Future of Entertainment is Interactive

The Future of Entertainment is Interactive.

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The future of entertainment is interactive.

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Transcript

...

you know, I think when

...

the first storytellers

...

sat down

...

at the first bonfire

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to tell the first story to the first wrapped audience

...

She must have accompanied the telling of the story by

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clapping singing and generally,

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making music stories and music have

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informed, educated and entertained for millennia.

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This is, of course, related to song, but it is a separate discipline.

...

though there is much overlap

...

overlap, which

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if anything goes to demonstrate that once

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you open the doors to

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one creative discipline quite often,

...

another will fill

...

I will quite quickly follow.

...

such as the nature of creativity, which

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of course, is the thread which connects all our conversations here on the creative farm.

...

My name is Ralph Tar, and here sorting

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the wheat from the cha and pruning the olive trees with me.

...

two program regular, Erica Hard,

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writer educator.

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multimedia producer coming in from Ontario today,

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I think

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And from old London town,

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composer

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musician

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and the owner of

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two experimental music labels.

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Adrian Ko

...

Welcome to the creative farm again

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both of you.

...

Thank you, Nice to be here.

...

Let's just make sure that Erica can get

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on the stage.

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with a bit of luck will join us very, very shortly.

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This this the the

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theme for for tonight's little chat was actually prompt

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by a discovery I just recently

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came across

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an extraordinary album.

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by Jack Rhetoric, the writer,

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and Steve Allen, the musician and Churchill show host,

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apparently, grew out of an impromptu

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performance, which worked so well, they decided to make

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and make an album.

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of it, and it contained Care.

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reading pieces of his various poems

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against Alan jamming on the piano,

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and it was titled poetry for the beat generation.

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as we can imagine,

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character reading alone

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Or Alan playing the blues alone was something to behold

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and quite enough, but together,

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the result was extraordinary.

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it was truly something

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magical. Is it because

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I wonder is it because wild words

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work on the intellect music goes straight

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for the strings of the heart.

...

Yeah. Well,

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Mean, obviously music is

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I mean, a story if it's read a book,

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I mean, we suddenly not ...as you said, how stories that have originated?

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are kind of heard internally

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when you've got what you're just talking about, i lived speeding music. Yeah. I mean, it's it's

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I mean I think stories can be

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as emotional but music

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think we talked about this last week. My my sense of music and emotion is that

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slightly different in that, You know, I find a lot of water

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we call emotion and that we use to to, you know,

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reinforce narrative in our daily lives.

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has been so degraded because

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Mean, it's it's not just that there's a language that was invented with the piano, but it's also the, you know,

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since for advertising came along. And so, you know,

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back in the days when people are sitting in front of the fire.

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I guess, the first reason you would tell people stories

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is to inform and to educate and perhaps to all

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you know so it had a very ...it had a social function.

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where's a lot of the

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I mean, my feeling is a lot of the kind of musical tropes that use

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that are emotional have kind of been taken

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I mean, you know, copies because that's some incredible stuff of it. And you're right, You know, it it it does stuff it's just

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pulls people's hearts strings all over the world in lots of different ways.

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increasingly for me, and the music I'm involved and I find that, you know,

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things of advertisement have taken

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those

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ideas that were developed and

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you know, for best intentions, and now they use them for a very different reason, which is to

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you know, to get a response. It's not too educate is to actually go you to buy some

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So in my own world, and in what I look

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for in narrative and

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sound. I'm looking for things that kind of shake you slightly

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don't reinforce your misconceptions

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of

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how

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you know, saying should make you feel or have

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can narrative should end. I like things that play with it. And I think, you know, back to do

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know, your exam jack Etcetera.

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I think when you get people improvise, which is obviously what

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they would do it. I mean, jack Jack K,

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you know, that was was all part of that early

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Well, not

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that early was fifties, but you know, that the kind of jazz becoming mainstream

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it was all about memorization. So we have two streams of improvisation?

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at the same time, Collide, and you start to get those kind of magical unplanned moments.

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because

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sex.

...

Yeah

...

Yep.

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reading was in itself musical. I mean, he had this manner

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matter of speaking that that

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rolled along and took you

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took you with it for the,, you know, along for the ride.

...

Yeah. There was a style wasn't over the beaten of the b poets.

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that there was a performance, you know, it's a bit like in

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the seventies sort of

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minimalist composers, the composer suddenly in in America,

...

you know, pledge rice and and invest, they would actually be in the bands, which was

...

kind of unusual at that time. And I think it just same to be poets. They they didn't wanna

...

right books. They wanted to be on the stage.

...

and They wanted to be sorted

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you know, forming and actively sort of

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you know, recite what they do.

...

Yeah.

...

Yeah.

...

It's

...

Maybe it's a rare thing, or maybe I was just

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I hadn't been lucky, you know? But discovering this little gem

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actually opened up a whole trove of

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similar similar collaborations and

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I've been quite

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blessed and

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and enchanted by by such by such

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instances.

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the

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Let me i'm I think Erica is having a bit of a

...

issue. But

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We'll back to that.

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going back going back to

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you know, sitting up the

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at the Bonfire music and stories.

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also,

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inexplicably linked culturally the Shaman or

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woman.

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with the drum.

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at the most fundamental level folk music of various

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European regions, the rios

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of West Africa,

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who have

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Serve the communities as poets and musicians, but also as

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or historians and keepers of

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ancestral records.

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in these traditions, it is difficult to separate music from stories.

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You

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But somehow, in what's

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loosely termed Western culture. The division is often far more visible.

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prescribed by the culture, even

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defining

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But then

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culture is a living thing, and then one day,

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comes along hip hop, and everything is turned upside down again.

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it seems those divisions are somewhere between temporary and artificial

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Would you ...would you agree?

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You. I mean, not the thing.

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you know, back to ...you saying about the African i mean

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you know, you go back to, like,

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say a talk and drum.

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which was an instrument that was used in Africa. I mean, it had a social

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reason. I've had a physical reason which is that, you know, you had to kinda communicate with people

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a bit of a distance away from you. You didn't have ton phones

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you didn't have email. You didn't have letters. So, you know, this is the way that you communicate

...

and I think it's the same of hip pop people

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came from a time

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after, you know, the

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you know, nixon and error and

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after Vietnam and Water gate, where, obviously, there's a lot of very

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you know run down

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you know, black in the city communities that had been left and

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hip hop.

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was sort of made from

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the

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instrumentation the choices to ...of of, you know, what was left, you come tables

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the old records that you found a break and, you know, little rhythmic break

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and they started to kind of

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pc breaks together and make something dimension when

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start to improvise music over it, but the but the music came from

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explaining what was going on at that time it's sort the social function, you know,

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when people don't have

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voices and

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you know, when the mainstream is kind of ignoring you,

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know, these fertile moments can happen. I mean, obviously the hip now.

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has become co

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and

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I I, you know, as a massive fan of hip.

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And just because like you said, it was so revolutionary, and I'd never really heard anything like it.

...

I

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was in

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monster the

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like eight when I first probably

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really start to listen to a lot of it and

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But, you know, something happened in the mid nineties and the late nineties less suddenly

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them right, you know, people making a lot of money. And then, of course, you

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became something that was

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people start wrapping about making lots of money and

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there was ...I mean, you know, this mac millions of strings in in hip hop, so I'm not gonna

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you start making expectations with very

...

of course, no. It's it's it is a it is a a vast

...

but the walk

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and rich out from

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there was a shift. You know, which I I remember, you know. I mean, I don't remember, for example, that

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i'm how you political tonight. Rupert mode last

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know the other one,

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Luck. Yeah.

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Last and I think he he, you know, this

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a very interesting independent label in

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from New York called Rock in the nineties. And, you know, I think

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maybe even people And were on there first and

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you know, most staff of really great wrappers and

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you know, the fact that

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I mean, I guess, maybe Hands were weren't in it

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but I remember thinking that that's really strange. You know, you've got an independent hip hop label

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and obviously, because They've got budget from some of the out lots of really great music.

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But at the back of it with this, like, you know, creep in hand of co,

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I'm I'm dive I'm

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I'm diversion slightly from the point.

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ralph, which is story.

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well, which is which is quite normal, and and and most welcome.

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And indeed is by part of the point of

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what we do do hear about ...because, of course,

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you can't take

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stories and music

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out of life and put them on a pedestal as much as as, you know,

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the, you know, cultural movements that that that insist that it is indeed.

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the only right way to enjoy music.

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but that is ...that is changing too. You know, there's

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that is, of course, a shift from enjoying bot,

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as a as

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I don't know museum exhibit and actually realizing that this is

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living living music that actually applies to us right? Right now today. But

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we can't pack these things out of

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quote unquote real life and real life as you rightly put it

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is is political. So

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the interesting

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And I'm, you know, hoping that Erica will will will join us shortly, but

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you know, the interesting of

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politics, art, and and and culture

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is something that is with us.

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all day every day, we can't escape it

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you know, this is the water that we swimming in.

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rejecting it is is like it's like, you know, a fish fresh rejecting water. It's

...

Right.

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kind of ridiculous. But but

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I mean, I think that, you know,

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I I was talking some him today, and they were ...they were saying to exactly what I felt today, which was

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almost like you need a lack of narrative. No. We're given so many

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divergent and, you know, different marriage

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all the time. We have so much information that is being

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and that we you know, participate in

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The actually the point where the stories stopped is the interesting in points nine.

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you know, for me,

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I mean, I had Vernon hurt herself recently talking about the news

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and he described as

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Theater

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and I thought, yeah. That's exactly it. You know, it's already already been staged

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is already been conceived.

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but you're being given it as though it's a

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you know, accurate depiction of something that is happening or just happened

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course is incredibly st.

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It is it

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is highly highly formal and and and

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form you like, and staged indeed.

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and stage responses

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And I think, you know, these responses now, you know, well, it's Jimmy, from my feeling and

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I'm talking earlier.

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you know, they were saying these responses are being triggered so often.

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that you actually sort of

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wanna wanna kinda break from these constant

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like, fake narratives being given the

...

and

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you And I think things like music is great because, you know, music obviously gets

...

down to a level where

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you're just listening sound and, you know, people could do all sorts

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different things we've signed in i was know me

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Now,, i I I write film music because my day job, and

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you know, one of the ...you know, which is narrative music. That's what for me the kid

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the idea is that it reinforces an existing narrative

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and

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you know, one of the phrases that is used

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I was like, you know, just establishing the about this is Mickey Mass.

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music where the idea is that, you know, when someone was across the floor, there's walking across

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full goes music. When there's a live bang

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you know, about to happen the music bills surveying by

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steam Willy.

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Yeah. You know, It's just ...think there's a big

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trend of that music still, but

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you know, like your Jack Carrier example.

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the interesting thing is when you have

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conflicting nurses, now is that kind of instinct but slightly out of sync. I think philip

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talked about that how, you know, he kind of tries to ride

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at an angle at a sort of slight distance from the picture.

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So the interesting thing is

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the narrative on screen, which is a visual thing, and then the narrative that the same will

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is suggestion are slightly at odds

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and it's the space in between those two things.

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that lies the imagination of the

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viewer

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and listener to kind of get involved and to, you know,

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get immersed imaginative in the world.

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whereas i think, Mickey mash is too prescriptive and

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even though ...yeah there's a whole kind of genre of music, which

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people seem to be well, whole genre of film, which is very popular other.

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that seems to

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you know, deal pretty much and

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that approach where you've gotta be told what to think everything

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horses horses for courses. There are

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there are times when music has such a narrative quality

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itself that images seemed to pop into the listeners mind.

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all of the wrong, of course,

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they may or may not be the same.

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images for two different listeners are indeed,

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the comparison may or may not have intended for those or indeed any images

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to to come up

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is it perhaps

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that combination then of

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of the subjective and imagined, and the spelled out and the stated

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that makes the mixture of music

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and story, so important.

...

Yeah. I mean, I think I mean, one of the things that I'm

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very grateful for you suggestions this as a

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as a conversation topic tonight, was that it

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somehow triggers

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me thinking of what was my

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favorite and imaginative use of narrative in music.

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I'm not talking about lyric music music with song or

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classical music

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amounts music. And it's piece by

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This requires good

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do your friedrich hush, and

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It's quite a long but it's called in Vain. It was written in the early nine early two five

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as a response to the rise of right wing,

...

political groups in Austria is

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Unfortunately, I think how has is dead now isn't he?

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Darren is alive is a a

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and see,

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I was just shooting he's the Morocco.

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Hook. Oh, excellent. Excellent.

...

But

...

so this music is

...

the interesting thing about it is some of the risks performed in darkness

...

And the idea of the music is

...

So this there's a kind of motif

...

which is

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the music is going up and down at the same time, which makes it sound like it's static.

...

And this is a recurring in multi motif it's idea of of things progressing.

...

they might be, but at the same time, we ...you know, there's a particular way that you can write

...

on

...

when you ...when you say it's going up and down, is it

...

to where, you know, one one line

...

the the the scale is is going up, and the other one is

...

Yep.

...

the scale is is is is coming down or is it

...

it's it's pretty ...I mean, it's it's actually acoustic you called a Chef

...

tone, which is exactly that. It's and acoustics realized that you could write two loans.

...

of sound that we're move in lots directions. And actually,

...

the syringe is involved, but basically it sounded

...

like there's movement and static at the same time.

...

And

...

So anyway, he he kind of

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wrote this piece, which

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encapsulated

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many many different narrative

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ideas of

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you know, the idea of progress and not progress.

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the idea of movement, but not movement. The idea of hope

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and hope

...

know, turning into the same thing again, You know, things that everyone know

...

particularly, you having gone through the last

...

many years, a common is not things of being

...

in in the various states of where we are.

...

you know,

...

the such of things. Yeah.

...

Five of things you kind of, you know, but twenty fifteen years ago, he was kind of

...

like I just do, sometimes he was

...

a little lining rod further times we're in the idea of movement and static and

...

you know, is the hope and hope turns into the same

...

thing again back to where we were before and

...

but he used light as a material, which was roger. And so you know, this help pass right people

...

plane in darkness musicians. I mean know people sell the music so depressing and

...

you know, because it uses a non conventional tunes. I mean, it isn't press

...

just unusual for the year. But think, the amazing thing through all of

...

the subject marks is.

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Quarter tones

...

so sort of thing on how how when you say unusual, what do you mean?

...

I mean, that you're using

...

tune systems based on

...

If you blow a horn,

...

it makes you know if you blow a hole a bit harder, it makes

...

another note if you blow a horn and even harder, it makes another note.

...

Yep.

...

the harmonic series. It's the natural tuning system that would have come out of happy

...

sports at

...

Yep.

...

you start start with with with a with with a with a fundamental and and and yep know,

...

Yeah. You can start with the world and an object

...

you make that you make sound out of and they is

...

certain physical reality to have and

...

progresses in terms of scales. If you

...

use those instruments problems things like kind

...

But but the amazing without piece is that there's a whole

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under the underline all of it.

...

is the fact that there's musicians that learn to play huge amount

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complex music in total pitch darkness. So amongst

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all the narrative of backwards and forwards and if there any kind of progress been made and

...

you know, you've got these

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incredible musicians to

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just sitting that giving you hope expect on this incredible thing.

...

they they've overcome the darkness to learn the music.

...

you know, And that's a very, very difficult thing particularly when you're not using

...

conventional tuning and, you know, so

...

So for me, you know, I sat and listen to that for a bit before we came on and

...

is it's one of my favorite, but is kind of narrative music but it's working on so many levels.

...

as the composer says, you know, you can't really play this on Youtube because, you know, it's really

...

about material that cannot be

...

I I ...you know it can't really be

...

experience digitally in any kind of meaningful way.

...

Yet. Again, the argument for

...

having a

...

collection of of effects called

...

called algorithms and having some equipment to play them on so you can actually turn the light

...

lights off and and listen to the music. Eric,

...

needs to talk

...

Erica, Erica is Erica. Is is here welcome.

...

I

...

great to have your witness.

...

Last meet.

...

Thank you.

...

And I'm sorry I was I was I was late all

...

all craziness broke out here as the show was starting

...

life life is is something that happens while

...

you're busy making other plans.

...

the power the power of music is such that it can alter the passage

...

of time, Barnard Herman,

...

Hedgehog hitchcock favorite.

...

composer.

...

who wrote the scores for the not by

...

by Northwest Vertigo, Psycho,

...

and other hitchcock and movies as well as citizen kane,

...

K taxi driver.

...

And the whole raft of others he said and I quote

...

Music can propel narrative swiftly forward.

...

all slow it down.

...

often lifts near dialogue into the realm of poetry.

...

it is the ...communicating link

...

between the screen,

...

and the audience reaching out

...

and developing all into one single

...

experience

...

music as social glue.

...

music.

...

as is no.

...

What's really going on that guys took to talk about that.

...

Well,

...

I mean, one of the things that sort of went through my mind is I was

...

I was listening to that is

...

how you can take a simple scene that

...

with without the music,

...

you know, you could interpret it in in in many different ways.

...

you know, you could

...

you can

...

say a stroll through the woods.

...

at

...

if you're if you're setting up a scene with that stroll for the woods where where they're

...

suspense involved or or sort of something for voting or

...

creepy. You would put very different music

...

to that, than you would if

...

if it was, like, you know, me on one of my nature around,

...

Mhmm.

...

and, you know, about to, you know,

...

people, a little bit of the the the the plants and the animals in in the woods.

...

and

...

But

...

But, ultimately,

...

you know, you could have that same scene of

...

of the purpose person walking in in both cases.

...

but the music that completely changes

...

changing changes away that

...

that that that scene is perceived. And

...

And sometimes, like, in some cases,

...

the music also can

...

it can make something

...

it can make something interesting or move something forward.

...

in a way

...

that that that is not simply happening from from what scene on the

...

screen or what is

...

what is heard in in in the dialogue.

...

So I guess, I guess that's

...

where ...I was I was having a little bit of a a chocolate at your lubricant part, but

...

but that certainly would be, you know, an aspect that ...where we're music

...

his lubricate

...

Certainly. And it says

...

often an interesting exercise

...

to turn the audio down or off altogether,

...

when when watching A film because and I like to do that as a, you know,

...

full disclosure. I get terrified that at, you know, you know,

...

watching watching horror movies i hardly they ever do

...

but what I do, I I turn the other off the the most horror

...

horrifying moment because

...

guys. So there's a monster today's scam it is coming to get the man he's gonna to

...

kill them all, and then we'll die horrible debts. Yeah. Okay. Fine.

...

but you have ...then you leave the audio on and all of a sudden, you has

...

hair is standing up on end. You are sweating, and you're actually

...

living that experience, the power of

...

music,

...

is such that as we said, it doesn't just

...

alter the passage passage of time. But

...

also tell us

...

that music does wonders

...

for memory retention and comprehension of facts.

...

part of your day job, Erica is indeed education.

...

Have you had occasion to call

...

on music to

...

lean a story one way or the other.

...

you're cutting

...

Right?

...

I can hear you're just fine.

...

Oh, okay. Sorry. Have I had i

...

to call on music

...

two and you left off

...

To lean story one way or the other.

...

Yeah. So I

...

there's actually, and ...and it's not so much music that I use in this

...

piece it's it's more sort a sound effects, but

...

when I was Park natural back in the day,

...

there was a story I used to to tell the

...

children and adults in the woods, all about douglas Spur.

...

and it was it was a way to teach them about

...

the different properties of that plant.

...

And and I did it in a story and I did this story but

...

that has a bit of its some foundations, although it's been it's been

...

remix and changed and had

...

some

...

modernization added in there as as our stories do over time.

...

but it was it it was ultimately a story that came from from

...

from our first nations people. And as I tell the story,

...

I tell the story where where

...

you can

...

hear the various aspects the things was going on from the peter

...

pattern of the mice as they they clap down the steps.

...

to this the seller seller being one of the aspects that has been modernized.

...

And, you know, where you hear the creaking of the door as

...

as the the old woman opens the door again, you know?

...

there wouldn't be metal in North America at that point. So the creaking of the door, would be a modernization

...

adaptation in there. But

...

it's

...

I mean, it's wonderful when you're doing something like that with well of both

...

tense and adults because they start to anticipate what's gonna happen next.

...

So in the case of this story, there there these mice that

...

keep coming back and they're pitching the the old woman's store of foods,

...

as opposed to going out and and collecting their own in the fourth

...

So in each each day of, you know, Yo that wrote

...

have a tendency to multiply these these mice that

...

keep visiting her seller are multiplying. And so the sounds gets louder and louder. And as

...

as I'd start to do the key that the mice would make each stay.

...

you know, usually ...well,

...

the kids, but also the adults would start to to

...

to join in with the the and the the kids

...

get a real excited blast about making that as loud as

...

possible as we get towards the end of the story.

...

and all of that, like, it adds to it and adds to it in a way to

...

of

...

getting and like ......there's there's other aspects

...

of this whole thing too where we got it a bit of humor

...

as the old woman wax the ice with her room to get them

...

you know, running out of the seller so they're going oh,

...

and, you know, that gets the ...well, the both the kids of the the adults laughing,

...

and then there there's, you know, that period where

...

you know, you change the pitch of your voice to which

...

although not music. I mean, it it has to

...

to that whole flavor of sounds and and

...

and some of the suspense that that sound can add to things.

...

And so, you know, as as the as a

...

come back in that third day and

...

you know, the womb barely barely has enough food to last through the winter.

...

you know,

...

we learn that not only does the old one have the power

...

to to speak and communicate with the mice, but she also can shoot

...

both lightning out of her fingertips.

...

Well, that's handy.

...

And so it really is. I wish I could do that.

...

I could used that earlier.

...

I have a whole list of people I could shoot there's I mean, really?

...

Yeah. So so

...

you know, as those those those bolts lightning, you know, start

...

to follow the the the mice and chase them towards these great big

...

spur, You know, the the pace of of ask how you're telling the story

...

speeds up and the the tension belts, and and you can see it in

...

kid spaces as they they're listening and and, you know, so of

...

you know,

...

and visiting the whole thing of these

...

these lightning bolts are chasing after these mice and shooting up the trees after the mice.

...

on the mice scam out on the branches, and

...

just as lightning boat through to get them. They duck into the cones, but then the lightning bolts

...

like,

...

sealed them inside the columns. So to this day, if you go into the forest,

...

in North America, where they've got the great big told

...

surgeries trees.

...

you'll see the little

...

mouse speed entails hanging out of those cones. And if you

...

twist the colon open. You'll see the most ears inside the cons.

...

Wow.

...

Guy.

...

I was hearing. I was hearing the

...

I was hearing the side effects I was hearing. They got the soundtrack to this

...

Yeah

...

I don't know., where you wait what were you're hearing music I was

...

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think

...

I mean, I think, you know, stories

...

it does either. It goes back to kind of these

...

you know, because goes back childhood where you hear,

...

stories and all these things are included in and

...

Yeah. I mean, you know, for me, stories

...

are something that I have to wait with day and day out. So usually,

...

there are kind of effects added

...

But, you know

...

tell me, but yes to be

...

my children,

...

how they respond to stories. It's something that I had followed for a while that

...

you know, there's a kind of purity about how

...

those emotional responses can be triggered.

...

which children experience, which

...

you know, saying. And within that is

...

I guess, you know, learning how to motion the

...

relate the world in safe environments. So for something scary happening,

...

you give a little dose of it, but there's nothing scary gonna happen and the child kind of understands that.

...

and horrifying show

...

vaccinations against against scary.

...

Alright.

...

Well, you know, just triggering your, I guess if I was gonna become

...

how is gonna be biological

...

cool I'd say that teaching

...

the children's a sympathetic nervous system to trigger

...

Okay.

...

But in in a safe way, you know, it's like

...

you can actually get scared, but nothing's gonna really bad happen so you don't have to

...

go into a very adrenaline day. It's just a little

...

taste a bit And it's the same with horror for adults. It's the same thing. We set on a

...

so far and watch a screen and, you know,

...

we know that nothing's is gonna happen that's gonna really hurt

...

Yeah.

...

oh, you i file

...

Yeah.

...

And I don't know about that. I know that that the the monster is coming out of that mirror.

...

I know.

...

I well it's a child? I thought that. I mean, or at least when I

...

when as a child when I turned the Tv off, my imagination kicked in,

...

So it wasn't what was gonna happen

...

while i was washing the film or the Tv show, it was

...

it was that world was now gonna end my world.

...

Oh, yeah. The boss is coming out through the Tally.

...

Oh, yeah.

...

Whereas I don't I obviously don't say that I. Because

...

I I lived it

...

but

...

london some of the worst

...

I live ...I lived near a lot of bankers and at

...

You don't need to don't need television to see

...

you that walking apart compared to

...

you know, bankers with, you know, computers.

...

coming back coming back to to this idea of tying

...

tying the the kind of the the not

...

of the three strands of of emotion

...

communication understanding

...

in the

...

in my communication practice, I've had to explain again and, again,

...

and again, to my clients that in contrast to what

...

we've been taught

...

that is you tell people the facts

...

which gender an emotional response. And based on that, you are able to make

...

a connection with those people.

...

it is actually exactly the other way around

...

it's almost

...

impossible to get people to remember any facts.

...

unless you've made an emotional connection first,

...

coming back to

...

your work, Erica as a writer educator. Has you come?

...

to call on music ability to cut through

...

and make those emotional connections

...

Well,

...

Yeah. I mean,

...

as a tool.

...

So, absolutely. I mean, if we go back

...

to that Douglas Fur story.

...

everybody who's ever heard that story

...

generally remembers how to dentist identify a deadlift fur.

...

So like, I I I actually

...

tell that story to my

...

my broadcast media students when I'm when ...when we're talking about, you know,

...

different ways of of telling stories and and and using different

...

you know, the the different sort of

...

storytelling elements from picture to sound to

...

to movement

...

and

...

because well ...because that story has a little bit of all of it in it.

...

but but it's always always find really interesting because

...

because there are, you know, adults through the to the class they're like, oh,

...

Oh, yeah. I heard that story. I always you remember, you know, when I see a douglas with

...

surgery or you know, a tree with these big, you know,

...

dark marks, you know, going up done ...that must be a douglas surgery

...

that survived the fire.

...

it's

...

there's

...

there is

...

there's definitely

...

ways that

...

that we can use the the that music

...

us that it it it creates that emotional connection with us.

...

I'm I'm thinking right now of

...

And I ...I sort of ...it's ...Adrian sparked it when he was when he was

...

talking and he was talking about the nervous system.

...

recently well last year, when the Had pandemic,

...

Laura created a story

...

It it's kind of like a little animated story.

...

in which

...

it's teaching kids all about relaxation.

...

and

...

Laurie, Laurie being your you know, your partner in

...

in in the production company.

...

Yeah. That's right. Laura you're wedding. And so she created this

...

little animated story book that's interactive, and it's all about

...

chain tips, how to unreal ...how to relax

...

and unwind as they go for

...

a sort of

...

a a trip to the beach. And along the trip

...

the beach. They're doing all sorts of different activities and

...

exercises as they're stretching out a starfish,

...

and

...

and doing doing all sorts of different things where they're they're moving and pretending

...

to do, like, you know, driving in a car and all that kind of stuff

...

all all throughout this story. And as you go through,

...

she's got these different beats of music.

...

that that do these things like that get them excited and they're having

...

fun the ends and learning how to do these different

...

yoga moves as they go through and at other times, like, especially towards the end,

...

where everything gets a little quieter and a little softer.

...

and it's calming them down so that they can

...

you know, relax and

...

focus on their breath on their breath, you know, as we

...

come to the ends of the story and learning how

...

Don't do that. We've I've got another fifteen minutes of the show to go.

...

and I'll start starting to to look for my blank here.

...

he's getting is getting late in Europe.

...

Adrian, I'm interested in how difficult it is.

...

for for you,

...

to think up music

...

to someone else's words or pictures.

...

how does the process work?

...

I mean, I think

...

but squad was saying about

...

what food glasses do is

...

I find that, you know, if you ...I mean, you have to write to pictures sometimes. So sometimes you have to sit

...

and the narrative is in front of you, and it's like, one minute.

...

fifty six seconds long. And there's

...

different beats,

...

within that scene, and you have to hit them. And

...

you just sit and you right using your, you know, your craft and what you've learned,

...

you know, to that kind of scene

...

generally, though, I I've prefer to write away from picture. I mean,

...

my preferred way, and it's

...

not always possible.

...

is that you watch something

...

once

...

you kind of internalize what it's about and

...

you then

...

go away and just write a load of music.

...

there is a very gut reaction to what you've seen. And

...

It's not even

...

based on a particular scene or a character or it's just a very loose

...

launched to what you see. And

...

you know, from that, usually comes a lot of gray.

...

stuff depending on how on it you are on the day.

...

or the people that you're working with face a bunch you. This just like an on ensemble.

...

I mean, you know, the last project I was working on I was lucky that I could actually go in room with an option

...

shouldn't do that. Where, you know, or or it's called maybe a small

...

So, like, like, forty people instead of a hundred and twenty

...

No. No. No. No. No. No. No that many. They you guys need

...

any crazy quite many is this, you know, or at least to me?

...

why sixteen or twelve is is

...

or the I know

...

So and on

...

Well, you know, I guess that, you know, when people think of folks is. I mean, it's

...

another digress, but that goes back to another era where, you know,

...

sense and funny music was played using, you know, large ensemble, but

...

Contemporary music Generally has much smaller groups

...

I mean, obviously Stephanie still have a lot place, but there's a lot of, you know, music written.

...

from some was on Symphony and and Generally,

...

if you're going you're writing twelve sixteen crazy is is enough

...

anyway,

...

So ...yeah. I mean, that that's the way that I like to work and you

...

And sometimes, you know, I've

...

I've I've done piece of music where

...

you know,

...

I can't remember how the might have begun it much be really simple idea.

...

And I remember recording a piece with a friend of mine who's challenge

...

and I and I was kind violin, I didn't pay the bar then.

...

but I decided that we're were gonna play this piece

...

this idea that I had and I'm set of microphone phone, and

...

we played it in one mic at the same time. So it's just like a piece

...

two people playing at same time. And

...

you know, it's a piece that's still when I see to picture. It it really has a very different

...

quality to it because it wasn't planned as a piece of music, firstly,

...

and and then also, it wasn't planned to particular seeing

...

I mean, you know, in fill music terms, you know, going back to

...

the classic of Hollywood film music, but also nine

...

the music added would be the the guy who find you

...

know, you give them the music a lot of music, and they then

...

put the music picture. They find the places sometimes where music is put to manufacture.

...

In fact, a lot of content composers that's what they do. So get hired for one week.

...

and they write the music, and they kind of write it in a

...

semi kind of modular Ikea lightweight

...

so it can be pulled apart slightly, and you can make difference.

...

know,

...

different soft and hard furnishings with it.

...

and the music the person who decides whether means it goes to picture. So

...

you know, in terms of how music works,

...

in in the professional world of as box

...

Tv Hollywood music. I think those processes

...

quite common. So the narrative isn't really

...

you know, there's many other factors that go into what

...

music you're hearing and it gets narratives

...

Well, half the time, it seems to me that, you know, you you get too different

...

the composers creating two different pieces of music.

...

and the they work

...

Yeah.

...

you know, equally well,

...

because of maybe, the consumption of

...

of the medium is such as such a a subjective thing.

...

But

...

Yeah..

...

mean, I cannot that's one thing by ...yeah. I I learn.

...

at some point that there's no wrong piece music.

...

to a scene that is ...if you gave enough of them,

...

you might get sacked, you know, which the different thing to been wrong.

...

But, you know, these different people have ideas of what they want.

...

it doesn't mean that what you you know, you you like to say yeah. You can

...

you can write endless pieces, and they're all right in different ways, but

...

if you're working in a commercial medium, you know, there's this this

...

there's some people who are in charge of about that have ideas and what a

...

should be and ultimately, that is the game

...

and the tire rep that you have to walk between your own creativity and and

...

and your inferred sense of

...

what is gonna work.

...

as as a point of interest at

...

at which stage does a composer get called in other

...

and the rules of thumb

...

as to how the comparison works with the the the the director

...

how often ...and and interestingly, interestingly,

...

How often does it happen that

...

a skill written score can not just animate the story, but

...

tie it together into a coherent hole.

...

when when it may not have been quite as coherent without it,

...

Yeah. Loads are different

...

questions there. I mean, so

...

this

...

the famous examples

...

keep my more to Earlier where the music was written beforehand, but there's many other

...

directors that have used the own trick and, you know, they're filmed to it.

...

So obviously that a different quality of performance as if

...

people may events the music.

...

I think

...

when you go about to burn at home and he would have been brought

...

very light because she's expensive.

...

So you you ...you know, you bring in right at the end and he does imagine.

...

And

...

these days composer of cheaper. So

...

you know, and and really is up to compose in the russian

...

a production. I mean, I like to going quite early and

...

start exploring stuff. But

...

Yeah. There's no ...there's no real rules how it works.

...

But I think

...

to people who are probably

...

you know, the people that ...I mean, it's also to do how many films you doing in a year. So if you're a kind of

...

the composer and you've got, like,

...

you you know, you've got like, a a treadmill

...

you have. I've got six films to do this is. I've got two months of film.

...

So, you know, there is a process of work

...

so you're gonna come in as late as possible.

...

it's like an industrial. It's like a sausage factory. I mean,

...

funny despite

...

the hands sausage factory.

...

If I despise some missing parts that that me and like that I just mean that

...

is a lot of process involved and lots many people

...

and the composer is one of those people and an important

...

but then the expensive part. So

...

that they're brought in later, but, you know, but ...I think it's changing and

...

composers are, like, everything that is

...

comes out of technology getting cheaper.

...

I mean, as in most of the ways people experience music now

...

comes around by technology companies.

...

one more another ...so, Generally,

...

you know?

...

it has to be cheap because it's the nicer.

...

Have technology working in

...

but I think

...

you know, my deal where if variety a music picture is

...

you know, set of the beginning. You just ...you go to pair

...

relationship with the people are working on it and go up a trust and experiment, and that came

...

you know, they say we wanted you to rights in a week.

...

trust that what you're do in a week is gonna be great, and we're not gonna throw out, then

...

an amazing creative opportunity. It's not one.

...

experienced ever.

...

but I think

...

you know, there's many ways as if there's writing narrative

...

Well, there's nothing nothing quite like a deadline to to get

...

the creative juices is going. In fact, if you're like me

...

unless you have a deadline line, that introduces

...

do not get going. But but I digress

...

guys, just to to finish up,

...

just to finish up, if I might ask you

...

to go back to the beginning.

...

of this conversation. And

...

the the Jack Carboxyl and

...

Steve Allen Album, which I

...

I found just

...

totally and throwing, and I do hope that you can

...

find it somewhere and and have a listen.

...

personal opinions

...

what have been some of the

...

some of the coolest

...

most

...

in regulating most eliminating

...

most insightful sad funniest combinations of

...

words and music not songs, but words

...

and music that you have come across, and I'll I'll start because

...

I'm a great fan of Tom Weights and have been for a very long time.

...

And in fact, in my it as as as an aside,

...

in my rambling

...

through the landscape of music spoke.

...

word collaboration. I've I found that, in fact,

...

white was hugely inspired by that very

...

Rhetoric and Alan Albums wheels within wheels.

...

There is a Tom piece

...

Well, he basically just tells the story, and he does a little bit of clump

...

plank blank on

...

on various instruments, and it is small change.

...

And I'm not sure if you

...

know it, but it is it goes something like small change. You got rained on.

...

with his own thirty eight

...

nobody influenced down by the arcade and the mark weren't weeping.

...

they weren't start craving mad.

...

and that he goes on to describe this murder

...

where there is another line, which just totally does it for me.

...

the dreams ain't broken down here now.

...

they're working with a limp.

...

Imagine this to a sort of a p piano.

...

what i've been some ...some of them more

...

memorable instances that you've come across.

...

I have

...

a blues musician and friend of mine who

...

I absolutely love listening to him saying,

...

and and he writes his own music and

...

part of it part of what I enjoy is

...

in in the course of his songs, he's telling the story.

...

and and then I find it funny too. Because

...

he has, like, he has this whole music

...

her persona where he seems like, you know, the graph

...

bad boy and and the music certainly goes, goes with a lot of the

...

songs. It is all about a

...

a serial killer in there as well. And

...

it it's it's ...I I think one of the things I find the music about it is

...

is that, you know, when you you would think he's the biggest woman and all the rest of it.

...

you listen to his music. But when you actually know as a real person,

...

you realized that that

...

that's a persona.

...

you know,

...

there is his his

...

How much drinking can drinking and

...

sha and driving really fast can one man take really.

...

Well, it's all whiskey with with Us that it's all really like, you know,

...

Of course, Of course,

...

out of that rock rock Canadian, sort of style whiskey. So

...

And he and he

...

that's a fine job drawing at that, come spent some time of memphis with them.

...

But

...

it it's interesting because ...because I actually ...it was

...

it was at a stage where I was writing

...

my sort of

...

you know, character Emmy Rogers who, while in some areas is

...

completely the opposite of me in other areas. He's

...

she's she ...she's got aspects of me and

...

she's fabulous darling.

...

And and she's changed me over time too.

...

but it's funny because I completely see this in Ross in his

...

in stage persona of Ross Nielsen versus

...

versus the the guy who after all of this sets

...

says we're, you know, wandering from Bard Bar and them

...

listening to different people sets is making sure that, you know,

...

Jesse Who's another blues musician who was the young guy at the time.

...

he was making sure that Jesse and I didn't get lost and we're with her, you know,

...

sort of but

...

he was there to introduce us to everybody, but that

...

extra funny, like, like it.

...

you know, as he's talking about woman and all these

...

these things. He is, like, so devoted.

...

to to the one moment and he's had his life, and he was so devoted

...

tour long before long before he was up

...

married And so I just ...yeah. I

...

I love the stories that he told, but I also love that Just

...

a position between who he is and

...

who his character is onstage stage.

...

was it

...

And I don't know if that that answer

...

your request so.

...

Yeah. It's in in part in parts

...

was it many quotes

...

attributed to Mark twain, but let's just say he did say that.

...

something along the lines that that it is vital to have a rich

...

Rich fantasy life.

...

mm-mm

...

make life so much more entertaining

...

Well, of course, it does. Adrian, words

...

and music

...

Well, I mean, I I

...

predominantly, these days entrance instrumental music, but

...

you mentioned tom weights reminded me of a track

...

I always love by some these lighter of pieces.

...

we called god's away on business.

...

God's away in business. Yeah. That is

...

What you know it? I went

...

I won't come up would be

...

the killer line in cases any lawyers listening

...

Yeah. I mean, that track just because again, you know, he's kind of coming out that bert breath.

...

so By, you know, sort of German

...

existential music, and then he's he's come out with this

...

this the spoke which is

...

funny and true and

...

and, you know, all of those things at the same time. So that that definitely is one that's

...

front time based on your

...

mentioning time weights, and then the other one

...

was i'm not in carnival in the nineties where

...

there was ...an a's

...

in august things and and it was incredibly hot with

...

like last few days in london. And

...

there was a science system and there was a

...

Dj called Norman j playing, and I think it was a Sunday.

...

and

...

the the the police

...

just all turned up understood behind the decks.

...

because they wanted him to turn the music off because

...

you you don't mean don't mean

...

and summers and and stewart Scotland

...

No I don't be much metropolitan and completely

...

You mean the met?

...

And so they stood behind the decks, and there was ...there was probably

...

a few thousand people. I mean, I I can't even

...

no. Maybe five, six, seven thousand people.

...

in this little

...

part of nine, where

...

that could be, you know, in science system of being put up

...

many of them were run on in you carnival. And

...

you know And so the police are both send right. That's your last one. That's the last one.

...

and the Dj Norman Joy was his name

...

still his name.

...

made and by an American graphical k echelon.

...

and he played they ...he i signed the police

...

And

...

I don't know if anyone knows that track here, but it it basically links

...

The idea ...one of the beautiful lines I love in it is it links

...

over overseer from the come from the plantations to the word officer.

...

and he just repeats over over since it attempted officer so.

...

the amazing thing beyond the rap and, you know, I

...

growth chat was was just washing the police shrinking.

...

has literally six thousand or ten thousand and five

...

how many people who wasn't literally

...

we're moving in five feet in the air on mass and just the energy that came from the crowd.

...

So, I mean, it's it it's it's it's lyric

...

and it was a moment, but that's is definitely one that I would always remember.

...

And so

...

That's the end of another

...

creative

...

Farm evening. Thank you for helping me prone the the olive trees.

...

Not quite sure what activity will get up to next week potential sure we'll find something

...

to do there's always something to do on the farm.

...

My big thanks to Erica Hard coming coming in from.

...

you I you're back in in B.

...

No. I'm still in Ontario right now. Be here for probably about another month.

...

give my give my love to moment.

...

I will.

...

Thank you.

...

and and Adrian Coca coming in from old

...

London town. Thank you both very much.

...

Thank you.

...

and we will catch you

...

next week, same time.

...

Yes. Same station.

...

same that channel.

...

check

...

havoc have a good evening.

...

die

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