The Future of Entertainment is Interactive

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Transcript

...

time does its job of

...

passing thing and we do our job of measuring it and obsessing about it.

...

we seem have passed millennial madness and the coming of the year two thousand

...

that entirely,

...

arbitrary construct, of course, the year not the madness.

...

and learn the world that did not end.

...

but there's no denying that the passage and the marking

...

of the passage of time.

...

has a way of building an even in its

...

if it's if it's a perfectly, sunny day,

...

out there.

...

No bombs are falling from the sky, and there's a fat part of t

...

sitting on the table time,

...

is a motive, which we will keep coming back to again and again,

...

on the greater farm.

...

this time, I've asked

...

program regular, grave and Adrian

...

co, the farm to help me with the with polishing.

...

the sun dial in the front yard.

...

Adrian is musician and composer.

...

and Erica is a writer story, and

...

multimedia producer. And as such, they are well versed

...

in the intricacies of working with time as raw

...

material, Erica, Adrian, welcome again to the

...

the

...

Hi. Very nice to be back.

...

Yeah. I we've being here.

...

Where do we start?

...

you know, where do we start? This is such a wonderful

...

huge

...

madden topic to say,

...

time is money rude in shallow shorthand, I think,

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time is the essence of our relationship with what we see as life.

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on the one hand, where forever running out of time on the other hand,

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we seem to think there's always going to be enough time

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to fix the climate crisis, for instance,

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And, of course, so

...

time based

...

platform state and music film.

...

do their best to deal with

...

the passing of time in ways that slow it down, speed it up or just

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celebrate the fact that we have time

...

even if some scientists and scientists distance, what a few

...

mystic have spent a lot of

...

you know?

...

time wondering if it's

...

Oh, not Just one grand illusion set of a cosmic joke.

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is is it a is it a joke?

...

I think it's an illusion. I don't know if it's a joke. I think

...

you know, like you said there's some karen and

...

coming together by between

...

some of the kind of buddha ideas

...

time and some of the new generation it's

...

physicists. And I think that's me what you're referring to the idea that it's

...

most of our sense of time is our own

...

projections of time onto events rather than there been some

...

you know, absolutely.

...

kicking meter somewhere that we just

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I've been lucky enough to discover. I'm in, a friend of mine scientist

...

Date sciences the other day.

...

when I was smiling about the state of this fair country that I live in,

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actually pointed out that we'd invented time

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This is on Saturday. So

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I actually went away and I

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presume greenwich mean.

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which, of course, is what it was. And if you read about,

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G mean time is really designed as a way. It was it was

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it was a bit like the zero was created

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you know, to eight

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calculation when people started trading.

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and

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mean

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and really really precise mechanical clocks to help to help

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sailors find that way. Right?

...

Exactly. Yeah. It was

...

it was really a a

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means to the promotion of

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the brush, you know, colonial forces or around the globe.

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how you could harmoni

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and rationalize that process one of the ways, obviously, how was coming up with this

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this greenwich mean, and, you know, from there because obviously great was a a very

...

powerful empire in just second move.

...

that became a sort of standard and

...

But I think, you know, going back to kind of what you mentioned about music. I think, when

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your musician, you know, you kind deal with time and a much more

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exponential your way. You know? So it's let. I mean, you know, obviously time

...

time signatures are kind of

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part of the way that, you know, music is

...

people can actually sort play together, you know, these are sort of normal things like

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like the alphabet musicians, but

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when you go Decrease that you realize they're quite often. They're not

...

The good musicians are not really daring.

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in to them in the same way that you suppose and

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you know,

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I find a service before, but completes your example take to never

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degree where everything is quan. That's on a grid.

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which is the total opposite of

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say the natural pull pull the push pull of

...

I I I

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sad players would play together. I mean,

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Oh

...

Sorry.

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I was gonna say I like the fact that you brought in the word natural there because

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even though, like, I I don't

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totally disagree you with the the time being and illusion.

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But at the same time, there there is some

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if we look at our natural world,

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like,

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time time also is a factor in nature

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factor in biology. It's a factor in in the

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in in our solar system. If we look at, like, the cycles of of life and death,

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and

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spinning of our of our of our earth and our earth

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travels around the sun. I mean, there definitely

...

you know, factors that that

...

that come into play when it comes to

...

to time. But when you're talking about, sorry, I interrupted you as you

...

were talking about the natural flow within music.

...

Yeah. I mean,

...

I ...I mean, I agree and think that, you don't,

...

older assistance had less linear sense

...

time. You know, when you start talking about natural time start

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talking about cycles and, you know, we go back to kind of ideas of seasoned seasonality, and

...

you know, the these structures, which, course the change in nine

...

even in my lifetime, what what the rhythm of those

...

things are as changed. So none of the set no matter how.

...

much we perceive them as natural. I mean, you know, was in the extreme spring summer or

...

and winter england quite often, you know, that it changes every year, but that there are

...

plants grow at different times of the year.

...

but there is still some in our cycle that is work and I, some physicists

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talk about, you know, the ideas of thermodynamics and

...

and various as the two things that are governing. I mean,

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I'm not scientist. So perhaps I'm straight out of my

...

my comfort zone, but

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But you have used it.

...

Absolutely.

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this is what we do very well on this show. There is a comfort zone over there.

...

and we're over here, actually looking at it from a distance,

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this is why I love talking to you people because you have actually just kicked off

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my entire

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list of things to talk about.

...

for the rest of the of the program. And and

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Oh, you now last.

...

But just because that kicked off, it doesn't mean that

...

actually done. Never quote for you. There is a there's a chat by the name of normal

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He happens to be a professor of theoretical philosophy, the University of B,

...

but he also does research into the concept of time

...

in quantum physics and looks into such useful things as

...

the requirements for quantum clocks.. I mean, how would you even build such a thing?

...

in any case, he has this to say

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on the the nature of time

...

and this comes from an interview on fizz dot org.

...

from only a couple of years ago.

...

So it's

...

current?

...

there isn't an elementary or quote unquote.

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real time.

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that others can be reduced to.

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you can have a deeper understanding of time

...

only if you seriously consider it's different forms,

...

and the cross connections between them.

...

I mean, he really is talking about music isn't he?

...

I mean, it can mean, obviously

...

I've been bit of catching b recently one of the things that

...

he does some more exploration music had like, you know

...

different time signatures playing at the same time. That don't seem to have any

...

can hear, you know, because usually, we expect things to sort of ...you know,

...

have some sort of regular meat point. And these things

...

So you're not talking about a polaroid

...

but you're talking a sort of

...

I'm yeah. Yeah..

...

Yeah. You're after talking about positive partners. But ...okay.

...

which is is one aspect and course, a lot of

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music that is non Western

...

chris west Western music obviously prioritized

...

harmony over driven. So, you know, all of

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rhythm was seen and still is quite

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secondary in some ways I mean for a long time in Western

...

what's the music anyway and until

...

maybe the arrival of, you know, sort of african

...

in and African American influence some music in the twentieth century.

...

And now, of course, you know, I've seen synchronized and beats some leaps and

...

you know, I understands the pirate written. But I mean,

...

Yeah. Poly rhythms, I think we're just natural ways.

...

and they probably

...

came from just people originally just playing their own inherent rhythm. I mean, if you get with a bunch

...

musicians

...

are good these things happen anyway, You know, they just play and

...

that no one's counts. You know, they're just playing

...

something and everyone comes shuffle around each other.

...

And so I think it's quite a

...

inherently human way functioning it's almost flight.

...

not trying to

...

give everyone the same

...

great. Everyone has to sort expecting to same i to be human and to

...

wobble around in and inside their ambiguity sense of time, which has decided

...

is

...

probably is very different. Ever has a tidy different sense

...

time change from day to day. It changes. You get older, it changes from when you're younger.

...

change if you're having a good day from a bad day. So

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you know, music when it's good for me, kind of allows all those

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skin inconsistencies to be absorbed into one thing.

...

and you can hear all that is different taxes of time.

...

candidates in one

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continuous piece.

...

I am almost think there's a thing there. Okay. This is this is me

...

making as the the

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Un Mute the Member of of of the trio here.

...

but they almost think that there's a thing with time with music where

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where you almost ...with when you've you're listening to dead music,

...

time drift away it you you you can

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completely lose

...

that

...

that sense of time when you're sort of immersed in

...

in

...

like it it sort of takes you takes you, like, I

...

you think about those days that music festivals where

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where you just

...

hours, hours disappear because because you're just so

...

shared by by the

...

but by your surroundings by by

...

by the tunes that are getting played by

...

by the ambiance of everything.

...

Yeah. Now powerful music. I mean, I think in terms of

...

you know, can do lots of things at one time. I mean,

...

you know, So obviously, the fact that your experience in

...

eighteen thing. And this there's a power. You know, even know I'm saying that

...

you know, music everyone's expiration time

...

separately or differently. You know, there is a power to giving someone

...

a a pulse and watching everyone response to that pulse on mass.

...

you know, obviously, it kinda gets taken in other areas and not

...

you know, the marching bands, and the fourth four rhythm, which is used

...

quite often, you know, we know it for my hash music and I live electronic music.

...

the roots of that really is marching music, which came from mystery music.

...

you know? I mean, obviously it's got appropriated

...

and then it's something a lot.

...

and like you said, a lot more unifying and more fun.

...

But yeah. I think that's maybe part of it. You know,

...

is the the fact that so often our daily lives very little.

...

you know, they used to be the church you guess that brought people together

...

under one roof doing one thing. And, you know, things like music festivals,

...

probably represent

...

the nearest that people get to experience and

...

you know, a world away from the.

...

urban life and just experienced in nature and, you know,

...

music together at save time.

...

different time signatures chance have

...

much to teach us about the the cultural

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and context.

...

it seems common time for four ...you just mentioned the most

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Well,

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common.

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time signature in Western, certainly Pop Music

...

is a groove to which Western is at feet

...

are used to. But

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algorithms of multiples of seven, nine or eleven so

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other combinations they create atmosphere, which

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immediately transport the Western listener or somewhere other

...

while being

...

Entirely

...

more normal common place.

...

for people in the Balkans on South Asia. So do

...

different geographies equal different relationships with time.

...

Yeah.

...

I I would

...

say so I also think not just geographies, cultures,

...

that's what well, that's what I meant is a shorthand.

...

Yeah. Well, I mean, and ...and I guess

...

the reason why I I sort of preface that theirs because

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as as Adrian was talking about about b

...

instead of losing yourself in the b and and

...

connection with nature. I I was thinking of some of our

...

first nations communities

...

here in Canada. And

...

in North America. And last night, I'd been listening

...

to

...

Important ...well,

...

I guess, fortunately, and, unfortunately, there's there's

...

there's a lot

...

of feeling through music and specifically

...

first nations music that's going going on in Canada right now because of

...

the

...

the

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you know, the discovery of

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Some some of the horrific news that we've been

...

Yeah. About

...

saying over the over the last weeks,

...

Yes. Yes. And and for anybody who's who's delve been

...

Canadian history, this this should or it has listened

...

to personalities groups. None of that should come as a surprise in any way.

...

Although, for many, it is,

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that

...

it

...

I think the recognition of it is is allowing for more

...

healing to be happening at the moment. And also,

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And and a lot of that healing for for the first nations is

...

is is it's your music. And and especially when I'm thinking about my my west

...

coast personalities nations in one of the bands that

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or one of the the the the nation's seven

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channels people who who I've spent time with on Vancouver Island,

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it's it's through the bead of the drum. And so I was listening to

...

some of those

...

that that be of the drum last night. But when when we talk about

...

differences in in cultures and globally around time and

...

and understanding, you know,

...

of of those different our different relationships

...

with time. That that is very much a thing when it comes

...

to to the first nations people in in Canada is

...

is time does move at a different

...

pace, you know, and a lot of it goes around

...

revolves around sort of the respect for the

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the l

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perspective for for the elders, but also respect for

...

for

...

the process of storytelling in the process of storytelling whether it's in

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an oral form of me sharing knowledge through a story.

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or whether it's through

...

this

...

the story in that relation that

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connection to nature that is is is shared through through their music

...

was a a book project That did in New Zealand and about twenty years ago.

...

and it was connecting

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tribal stories with other people who told the stories

...

and the landscapes around which the stories were

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centered and that seemed to be

...

and I'm broken

...

connection with the past and and the present

...

The present was just

...

part of that of that river that you sort of stepped into, but once you

...

stepped into that river.

...

And in fact, I have a couple of

...

ready cool shots of try elder in a really cold

...

river up to his

...

after his waste.

...

once you stepped into that river, the

...

the divisions between

...

the past and the present. And I suspect, also, the future on the although we didn't go

...

that far

...

they

...

dissolve to a degree. If we think about it,

...

way of measuring time is as obviously arbitrary as it is clumsy.

...

in a in a sort of an elegant sort of way.

...

we have five dozen seconds

...

may committed five dozen minutes making hour.

...

two dozen hours make a day.

...

and so and so forth.

...

given Evan comes down to the vibrations of an atomic clock.

...

it feels a bit medieval market to me.

...

which, again, brings back

...

ideas around minerals and and and traveling musicians.

...

I'm gonna think, you know, this

...

I'm just thinking I mean, i approach the

...

is almost

...

you know, kind of three

...

broad cultural senses of time, which is, you know, the kind of industrial

...

time, which when you talk about

...

you know, native people's first peoples

...

relationship with nature and the sense of time debuted in in there

...

culture. It's obviously very different.

...

to the sense of time that is the ones that we

...

January living in, which is in

...

post industrial

...

cultures. But, you know, see our sense plan as we said with the french meantime came from

...

you know, sort of industrial processes

...

business commercial processes.

...

now we've got another sense of time, which is being

...

Internet, which is something totally different and I

...

still can't really say what the sense of time is that

...

I

...

somewhere between no time and always time. Right?

...

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, mentioned in some of these other concessions, one things

...

I realized recent the Internet is

...

and the algorithms that govern

...

more information we see on the in internet they're always going backwards.

...

you know, they're like looking at what you looked at

...

so this always sense of the past. And recently, you know, be talking

...

before that music. And, you know know,

...

that ten by people's, you know, consumption patterns and what they're buying and listening need to

...

lot of people are buying

...

stuff that has existed for a long time before, you know, and

...

of music. You know, there seems to be less.

...

fascination with the music of name, and this seems to be a constant

...

kind of digging deeper into things and

...

obviously record companies will keep feeding in that by

...

issuing stuff from the catalog to make more money without them to invest in new artists.

...

But yeah. I mean,

...

that is no time, but there's also a strong sense of of the past

...

in the internet, which I think, for such a sort of

...

you know, futuristic tool. You know, it still is an amazing thing like we're using it now.

...

you know, we connecting to three different time zones.

...

and there's probably more of the people they're listening and it just these is familiar.

...

as if we're in same room, you know, in terms of the conversation.

...

So, you know, it's a good example of the note time at the Internet

...

and genders read at the same time. I think some of the conservative forces

...

that like, you know, all around the world.

...

Maybe there is some relation to the Internet.

...

maybe it might be the race

...

as much of a fan of like a good grateful dead release.

...

or release

...

as as as I dead hit,

...

But i've recently, in fact, just

...

today been listening to the new album by

...

the swiss Nick batch

...

who is not quite as well as

...

grateful that, but perhaps it should be

...

delicious work on the Ecm

...

label. And while, there is

...

melody.

...

there's often little of what we would recognize as rhythm.

...

on the other hand,

...

some of the pieces

...

all the rhythm

...

nothing but rhythm.

...

I love

...

the idea that you can actually cross boundaries

...

without actually telling people that you're crossing these boundaries because

...

to most people

...

If you tell them

...

what do you think of when you when when I say time and music, they naturally think rhythm

...

because, which is fine as far as it goes, but

...

listeners to this program, are not most people.

...

So we need to go beyond those equivalence

...

you can have music without rhythm, and you can have

...

music. You can have rhythm that actually

...

carries no melody and they are both or can be just

...

is beautiful just as moving. Right?

...

Yeah. I mean, I think rhythm is

...

you know, I did a a drummer

...

Jackie leave out from Ten a pretty amazing drama.

...

when describing the music as sickle sin rather than faster or slow.

...

and the think it's kinda quite used away sometimes looking at

...

rhythmic material. I mean, so

...

Well, he talk was talking about the number of dummy equations. You you can

...

you can tuck into pack into into a measures.

...

Well, you know, you you can think of

...

Yeah. It's you know, the the the b can be the same

...

speed in terms of, like, the pulse, but because there's more

...

rhythmic information within that same

...

meter. It sounds thick and therefore faster illusion.

...

whereas you can have them that's quite fast, but if there's very little gap between the

...

the the beats of of the of the meter then it can sound that

...

quite thin and quite airy and quite light. So

...

but, you know, there's also things like, you know, they I mentioned about mon young I make

...

made these drone pieces which sound like there's no time in the more whatsoever but

...

But actually, you know, he was using the

...

the rhythm o or ...well, the rhythm and the harmony

...

of the electrical grid in America, which is however many

...

cycles per second, there are, and I can't remember what it is exactly.

...

Well, to the fifty or sixty

...

you know,

...

fifty or sixty on the electrical grid, So that is a meter.

...

and it's just that because they're so fast.

...

this fifty of these cycles per second,

...

you don't actually notice the

...

you know, the fact that there is written material within with a constant flow of something.

...

And, actually, there, if you go in

...

you know, a room and you hear to sign ways

...

plane together slightly at different different cycles per second.

...

which is how we tune notes and an instrument. We talking

...

a being a, you know, seventy cycles per second and

...

This is standardized again.

...

you know, we have standardized those junior systems, which, again, the tune is

...

is a rhythm. You know, this there's this number of cycles per second, which determines a pitch

...

But, you know, if you have two sign waves bit apart,

...

and you haven't come out to speakers, they will interfere with each other and create

...

packing a bit like the way that, you know, water interferes

...

you know, eddie in a in running water will create different patterns.

...

and you actually get these weird rhythmic

...

structures.

...

just from combining these two things which sound like constant sounds.

...

with i which actually aren't. Actually. Kind of got as much rhythmic information in them as anything, but

...

So I don't have to answer your question, but I think you were ......yeah. They idea of

...

yeah rhythm and and Harmony and Melody are

...

and inherently, the same thing really in terms of at least typed pitch was defined.

...

Erica, Those those

...

drums you were talking about.

...

Yes.

...

How how long do you have to listen to one in order to

...

really drift away and get on to get into some other

...

time space.

...

Well,

...

So

...

those ...they're they're really

...

them ...so just just so that everybody sort of gets an idea of

...

of of these drums.

...

they're sort of big they're handheld ones.

...

and you've got sort of a

...

a piece of wood that's been bent

...

and walked around into a circle, and then you have deer hives.

...

stretched across the surface of the drum.

...

I I've been very fortunate where I was when I was teaching

...

with

...

with

...

the the band that I'm thinking of the channel first nation

...

on, they they gifted me one of these

...

one of these drums. Unfortunately, it's

...

and I'd play it for you now, but it's in B and I'm in Ontario. But

...

technology doesn't stress quite that far.

...

No. No.

...

And then and then to the stretched on the backside, you've got

...

sort of for ...and I'm I can't quite remember

...

what what it's made of that it's if it's cedar, cedar rogue,

...

or

...

or I

...

think it's likely cedar rope, but it might be some

...

thing from from the beer. But

...

you've got sort of for

...

stretched across

...

ropes that come together and and create a handheld help

...

your drum, and then and then you've got sort of a step with

...

bit of deer hide on the end and sort of

...

something stuffed into the deer height. I haven't taken it apart, So I'm not sure what

...

stuffed inside the the deer hide top to the ...so your

...

once you once you once you un stop it, you probably can't stop it back

...

Well, exactly. And I I don't wanna

...

back together again. So so don't do it.

...

exactly. So ...but as you start the

...

play it. It's it's actually quite amazing because the vibrations variations that come from these

...

drums are incredibly soothing.

...

So

...

And, of course, as you hold this thing in one hand,

...

and play with the other vibration

...

goes right through your

...

Absolutely.

...

send you and your and your bound. Right?

...

Yeah. Yeah. It it's it's

...

it's it's really one of the most therapeutic

...

and well it is the most therapeutic instrument that I've ever played.

...

but it's also, like, a very, very therapeutic.

...

experience, which is probably why it's used a fair bit.

...

when it comes to to healing,

...

with with within the the new channel culture.

...

But I I started playing playing the drum I was gifted and search

...

teaching me Yourself how to play it at the the beginning of the pandemic last year after they were talking about

...

people that I going out and playing music for the

...

for the the medical staff. I I

...

know, decided I'd start doing that on the front porch.

...

and

...

And I I I'd asked what songs I was allowed to play because

...

I I didn't wanna assume that that I could could

...

play any of any of the songs within

...

the new channel culture, and I was ...I was

...

told that I could play anything that that that's, you know, that they didn't they put online

...

And they sort of recommended that I start with the Warrior woman song, which

...

is a song that only women are allowed to sing.

...

That makes sense.

...

Yeah. Yeah. Well it's it's

...

good place to start in the middle of a pandemic, especially

...

Exactly. Exactly. It's and it says

...

it's it's a song about healing, and it's the song about sort of

...

reclaiming, reclaiming your power, and and your strength.

...

And

...

it

...

I found that really interesting, like, as soon as I started to be

...

you know, and I had that those vibrations flow through me.

...

it it instantly relax me and put me into that

...

trans. And I noticed the same thing whenever I

...

some of the the the ...my my students from that that

...

community and

...

and and port out Bernie, they they've

...

they they post the the drum that happens in their

...

their community on, you know, via a Facebook book.

...

and

...

every single time I click on one of the the videos and and and begin to listen

...

to to to the drummer playing in in the community and this can be everywhere from

...

you know, children that are picking up the drums for the first time to

...

you know, to to some of the elders that the plate played all their lives.

...

and

...

you know, even if I'm busy,

...

I instantly just stop, and I

...

I slow down and I focus

...

and I lose myself in the music.

...

and

...

one of the things that was so interesting for me when I started playing

...

was that I was at my mom's at

...

the time and both my mom's dog and my cat

...

come and sit me whenever I start to play.

...

And I thought the cat would be scared to loud noise at first, but no.

...

No. They're instantly drawn it's stopped because I have this

...

innate some musical palettes about me.

...

You're you're cat. We we we've known the

...

for a long time. There doesn't seem to be

...

any music without time

...

would that be a fast statement?

...

Does that make

...

music the most enduring art

...

Therefore,

...

after all, if there's if there's is no music, there's no time

...

and therefore, there is nothing

...

i mean, I guess you can have music, but just there's one

...

I mean,

...

While John Cage a four ministry,

...

thirty three seconds is, of course, the the epitome of the composer understanding of his

...

his art forms

...

But that's the idea that you just

...

relationship with time. Right?

...

Well, the idea with that is i thing you just

...

eventually stop expecting the the musicians to make know. You start listening to do.

...

environments noise around you.

...

think the point of that piece. So, you know, the idea you start listening to this sound everywhere you need to

...

come from

...

an instrument. And so

...

that kind of connects you to a place and

...

you know, a place is a set of events.

...

which in inevitably is time base

...

But, you know, the idea that music has to be

...

if music. Can you do have music without time to good question? I guess you could make one event

...

and then

...

that would be it.

...

And so you just have a an event. I mean, you know, a form music

...

where they instead of making notes,

...

that have a kind of linear progression

...

you make you build up sound using almost the idea of

...

swarms or grains, you know, there's

...

forms of electronic music called granular.

...

since this the idea you can program sounds to just sort appear.

...

in patterns and densities, and they move around a bit like a cloud or

...

drop the brain within an a flag. And

...

these are

...

the nearest things that

...

you know, some of the things that are very time day, that they're very fluid

...

so, you know, the idea ...you it almost sounds like it isn't

...

got timing in queue it sounds very loose.

...

but in by it inherently does.

...

You does Yeah.

...

I mean, it wouldn't ...would it wouldn't exist without it. Right?

...

Yeah. But I mean, you know, I went behind much of music is because on the

...

systems

...

you know, back you thing we said at the beginning the

...

you know, we project time onto things, Rather than time exists, and that's still not two

...

or at least a lot of what we perceive to be time seems to do that.

...

I wonder whoever is just because Our nervous the systems are firing.

...

processing information at such regular

...

whatever rhythms that it it does, that's what gives

...

you know, music, you know, because we're perceiving signs

...

because of our nervous assistance, and we make same

...

because if I never system's response to it. But, you know, different

...

I guess, different creatures and different

...

animal and mineral and

...

school material would probably have a very different sense of time

...

to

...

that same

...

you know?

...

that same sort phenomenon. So

...

you're you're you're hitting on

...

Yeah. That This a good way.

...

you're hitting on a really interesting point very with with nervous systems.

...

and and

...

and

...

and time because I I think

...

one of the things that

...

that

...

that I was touching on earlier about when time seems to disappear through music.

...

it's usually disappearing through music when that music is is

...

is either relaxing

...

you know, me? Or it's fully

...

it's it's it's, you know, it's it's bringing me kind of into to

...

to a trance with the music versus

...

when

...

I don't know about about you. But when when I'm nervous about something times

...

seems to

...

to take much longer.

...

if if if if music

...

or or the sounds I'm hearing, put put my nerves on edge.

...

then then those those seconds take much longer

...

Hi.

...

to to to travel by.

...

sort of a dissonance.

...

last four forever you can't cannot of get away from from it quickly enough.

...

Yeah. I mean, yeah. I think the the

...

system is is

...

know so you've got these two. You got comparison traffic

...

rest and relaxed your sympathetic nervous system

...

was getting wrong way round.

...

but I think the paris sympathetic is the

...

Yes. You

...

rest. Is that right? The synthetic is be adrenaline part of the nervous system.

...

Yeah. No. You're right. Paris is

...

is at rest and and it's ultimately

...

like, anybody who studied mindfulness,

...

that that's what you're that's what you're shooting for with with

...

That's where you want to be right.

...

Exactly.

...

exactly.

...

Mhmm.

...

They don't

...

there was a there's a drama who recently called melted braves. She was like

...

free jazz drama from the sixties piece.

...

he was also an and a herb list, and

...

in the first time I really ...and he would actually

...

treat people. He would read the pulses.

...

like Chinese doctors, you know, use pulse diagnosis, which is a rhythmic

...

thing as part of that toolbar.

...

And I take, you know, ten eleven different

...

and he would ...the was that

...

the different policies. Right?

...

Yeah. But he would use them rhythm.

...

as a means, like, address changing the pulses within the body.

...

change the and Iron

...

way that the different organ systems or

...

the nervous system or the, you know ...yeah different

...

you know, Mister of the body would communicate to each other You would use rhythm

...

to kinda change the way that

...

there deliver a a a kind of conversation movement conversation between

...

all the different parts of the body and then Why

...

function which i for views.

...

is, like,

...

you almost like a body is like an instrument and the

...

punch needles are put in

...

points of channels in the body, which changes

...

the internal vibrations.

...

inside the body, and it's like almost tuning

...

internally the body, and it's almost the know, they it that depends or much work.

...

Tuning Pe

...

like tune and peanut tune and shannon parks.

...

yes I can I can I can attest

...

Yeah. Like the

...

test with that. Having having had of you're stuck in me and my.

...

Yeah. They have, you know, ...you know, why is it attached to

...

but the act needles are actually sort of, you know,

...

temporary tune and pages are inserted.

...

and

...

i wow that's incredible. You know? And just

...

then start act pinterest as as like musicians.

...

and that job is being, you know,

...

and very kind of refined version of so

...

I

...

sometimes too you. But I mean,

...

it all relate idea, you know, music healing rhythm,

...

is kind of an interesting area, and I think it's still

...

know, still early days i think we still don't know

...

much or there's not a lot of study, you know, that is definitely just

...

starting to be

...

people looking into these things.

...

I, for example, a rhythmic pulse are a healthy post.

...

should not be regular. It should fluctuate. So, you know, the whole idea that

...

timing in that we use

...

whether how a computer sense of time

...

or the drainage mean or o'clock these inherently odds

...

with what a healthy time is because they're regular

...

and, you know, suppose the only time your policy is regular.

...

is when something bad is about to happen.

...

you know, a post should fluctuate and be

...

So you hit your you hit your

...

Yeah. We got have a hot.

...

hundred powers right, and and and and it ...and and it stays there. Right?

...

When you back have the art o'clock, I'm sure your pulse is pretty regular for, you know?

...

Yeah.

...

so. And

...

we've touched on this before just a few minutes ago.

...

But is there such a thing as a

...

natural time. I mean, is it as simple as getting up with the

...

chickens And going to sleep with the sun.

...

or is there is there more to it?

...

Well, I mean, that's certainly

...

Or or is that also an illusion?

...

Well, there's certainly natural times as far as

...

as far as cycles, like the cycle of life and death,

...

are you're looking at, like, you know, cycle of of a

...

of of, you know, meta happening or

...

circles, not straight lines. Right?

...

Yeah. In those

...

certainly in the case of of of a cycle,

...

you're you're you're looking at a at a circle as opposed to

...

straight line. Well, i'm

...

I guess, too, if few them look at seasons and

...

Ends well, well,

...

your seasons night

...

well, depending on where you live, you might not have it pronounced

...

seasons. I I know certainly here in Canada,

...

Well you're having a bit of a bloody well pronounced.

...

season right now. I mean, forty six degrees good gone.

...

Oh,

...

yes.

...

that's the West Coast. Thank goodness. It's it's it's it's not very often that if the

...

time I say thank goodness Time Ontario, but thank

...

i'm ontario because

...

That is that is that is very pronounced indeed.

...

Yes. Yes.

...

They idea

...

I

...

Five

...

great to to see you join us.

...

what have you ...what have you got to throw into this

...

our glass

...

I guess I'm really fascinated with

...

kind of

...

how big

...

you can or you would like to take it, and I think you've kind the

...

started to touch on that a little bit with seasons

...

and so on. And I got reminded a couple of days ago here.

...

that was this really amazing full moon

...

and that reminded me that traditionally, for example, the

...

female cycle would be

...

completely in sync with the moon now nowadays, that obviously, all over the shop

...

because, you know, people mess around with stuff and the, you know, electric lives and all of us.

...

Well, we have electric light and such good things.

...

Exactly.

...

So the full moon can can be anywhere you want to be

...

It's a it's a it's a nice nice

...

is that it it's not not doesn't have that sort of governing

...

presence and longer.

...

exactly. So I'm wondering kind of

...

I don't really know how to formulate that into a question, but if

...

kind of like how big do you? I I really love this idea of

...

kind of music and and

...

using that as a healing way to kind of re, you know, put

...

put things back into into a more fruitful resonance.

...

I'm really wondering how can you

...

Well, we usually go somewhere between largest

...

and gigantic on this on this program with this with this with this,

...

particular crew. So so so let's go let's, you know, please

...

do do formulate.

...

Yeah. Like like ...go go for it. Go for it.

...

Mhmm.

...

Well, you know, I mean, I think every is vibrate, and then bigger things vibrate great

...

slower and

...

really big things. That you to me at too, but that's just because they're really really big.

...

And so

...

You know, did this is the thing that's been like with music.

...

but everything has got

...

in Our time within it, but

...

the biggest ...you know, and also that the the the largest something is

...

the the natural sound that will make will be lower.

...

So, you know, Seems like posts,

...

there's piece of music written using live streams of

...

the waves coming off picked up by radio telescopes that the customers

...

will to perform against as a piece by French computer?

...

k agrees, and

...

you know, these are a real science and obviously

...

it's been i we've prepared some you know a, good song because

...

if you slow boots on down to the pitch of the human voice,

...

it sounds very different to what we

...

that because of the, you know, different sizes

...

relative sizes of us to them.

...

and

...

Yes.

...

So just the upper apparatus of hearing doesn't allow us to

...

to articulate that finally. Right.

...

Yes. Sometimes slow, you know, slow,

...

when things get above a certain pitch and below a certain pitch, we can't hear them.

...

you know, or feel them. I mean,

...

I saw a piece

...

that was Chris, Watson was recording

...

was an installation, but it was using Elephants science elephants, and I think there is

...

The rum

...

annoys the elephant that is so low.

...

that

...

you know

...

but he, you know, you if you've got big enough speaker and you record it these things,

...

well enough, which, of course he does then

...

you can't hear the sound but you can feel it in the room. You can feel this

...

vibration, which is so low.

...

and it's a very strange sensation because it's

...

Are we talking? Are we talking to single hertz?

...

I don't know what the notes would be.

...

Because because that

...

I don't know but. Yeah. It's got be very low. And and

...

the ...if if if your your your

...

the power in your electrical socket is is fifty hertz, and that is a

...

That is a fairly row. Low that the

...

elephants Rumble would need to be lower.

...

lower still.

...

I mean, the stuff that's sonic.

...

Oh,

...

that's the so that just

...

beyond what, you know, what we

...

you know, these things are always going rent. I mean, another

...

different more kind of project example that I was recorded

...

very quite music in my flat are some vi and

...

you, she's recorded well afterwards, I could just hear this noise going underneath all of it.

...

even though I done notice these signs, you know, there was it was just the sign of the because.

...

the the the wheels on on the on the

...

you know, on the tar on the rhoads.

...

Mhmm

...

sort of like, two hundred metres a away, which I up even noticed anymore.

...

these frequencies these vibrations are constantly going on and you're

...

your nervous system is constantly

...

noticing them or at least it's taken energy to sort of stop you

...

picking up on the kind of filtering in the mat, which types

...

of energy.

...

So., yeah,

...

this would be a good point. I wish Chris Watson and i to see it could be much more and

...

tell lots of beautiful stories about nature.

...

Well, we'll have to drag him into the

...

Yeah.

...

into the creative farm soon because he could

...

coming up in in

...

the keeps getting mentioned by you, and and I'm getting more and more.

...

curious us to as his field work and all the various

...

bits and bits of of of is

...

relations that he's been producing of which I've only

...

witnessed

...

is is

...

tiny handful.

...

Chris Watson and the gentlemen that that you keep mentioning who's doing the sounds

...

escapes from nature, Adrian,

...

Yeah. He's killed psychologist sorry kind of

...

is recording the

...

different ...even cause under the scene up in the air

...

the middle of the jungle under the sand on the sand. You you you know, you name is

...

that's job. He travels around Then sends them into installations and

...

Some of those are really really beautiful.

...

and other things. But yeah. He's me

...

liquid.

...

Yeah. They're incredible. Yeah. Yeah.

...

I think, you know, locked people that's kind of

...

and begin and certainly, whenever was sort of cut off, you know, think a lot

...

those kind of sounds were very important, you know?

...

it seems that it's only the the limits of the

...

artist's imagination that stand between us

...

the viewers and or or listeners

...

and I changed understanding of time

...

And and

...

I'm

...

Mic to think of the end. They remember the end

...

the tree like creatures

...

in the lord of the rings.

...

were the guardians of the forest and

...

had a very particular. ...But you get a relationship to time, and there are

...

There are some lovely moments where

...

Well, all hell seems to be breaking Lewis and bad guys are

...

out there with bad intent

...

and they the heroes are

...

trying to hurry the gen along.

...

And first thing they say as well.

...

well just have to

...

think about it for a little while.

...

and it's quite wonderful.

...

Almost like time travel.

...

we can't have

...

actual physical time travel at least not just yet.

...

But it seems that we can do it.

...

at the level of emotions, and we can do it at the drop of a hat and music

...

that just enough nerve endings directly.

...

to make

...

that quite easy, actually,

...

All we need is to be open to the idea. Right?

...

Absolutely. I mean, I think it's

...

You know, there's

...

there's interesting things that that that we can

...

we can do

...

when we just open ourselves up

...

to allowing

...

and accepting and experience.

...

I I've been thinking about

...

I've been to a lot on on this this the show today.

...

as as raped aware, I kinda had

...

you know, started on a bit of a pain journey.

...

about eight years ago because of of a car accident and then another

...

car accidents. And

...

in that mix. I I I got some the subject to sort of

...

two special holistic clinics.

...

where there's been a lot of teaching around around mindfulness

...

and para empathetic nerve, like,

...

your parasympathetic nervous system. And

...

learning learning how to

...

to slow down and how to kind of

...

approach your world in a in a

...

a bit of a different way.

...

and

...

it

...

you know, when you ...when you're a

...

like, one of the things that ...I mean, it's been

...

exceedingly helpful to myself, And I think it's also taught me some really

...

healthy ways of approaching approaching life in general. But

...

in order for something like that to work.

...

you have to be open to it. You need to take yourself outside of

...

of of your head and and allow yourself to

...

experience be open to the experience.

...

in order to kind of shift shift your

...

your perceptions around those

...

around around things like mindfulness. It's it's interesting my

...

my doctor sort of said to me ...because, you know, I'm very thankful for these clinics

...

that taught me this. But you said to me, he's like, he goes air yet.

...

you're you're open to it. He goes, I sent other patience to the same clinic.

...

And

...

there hasn't been that that change. There hasn't been that shift.

...

because

...

they didn't make them, like,

...

the the particular patients didn't make themselves open to allowing

...

for

...

well, it's it's like, like going to a a

...

a gig where where, you know, the the music is not like the stuff that you know, let listen to

...

usually it's it's at providing its quote unquote

...

good music.

...

once you allow yourself,

...

two to to open the door to maybe not

...

enjoying it, but enjoying it, but at least allowing it in,

...

even then then it is certainly going to be a file

...

far more

...

positive experience and issue.

...

if you if you haven't ...it seems

...

there is some ...there's was a relationship with magic

...

to all this

...

and

...

And, of course, music and magic have been

...

intimately,

...

into twice.

...

for as long as there has been muted music.

...

and magic and

...

I don't know if you guys know this this

...

writer a Neil Stevens and his

...

is my favorite science fiction writer.

...

look him up if you don't know him.

...

It does a very neat trick.

...

in a in a book called the rise and fall of the dod.

...

he marks the time of the the the disappearance of magic.

...

as being the time of the invention of photography and therefore,

...

of capturing a particular moment in time.

...

But, of course, we still have magic around us. I think don't we

...

Oh, I think ...I mean, I I I'm personally at

...

you know, when I'm spending time in nature and looking at the natural world and

...

you know, how things grow and

...

and interact with each other. I think there's

...

I there's so much

...

I think there's so much magic. And then even there's magic and

...

you know, if you if you slow down and and you set and you want,

...

send you you

...

connect and you

...

you touch those different beings in those spaces.

...

they're

...

there's there's magic in the sort of the exchange of energy that you have.

...

have

...

have with with

...

those those natural things around you.

...

these creatures are in our world, but

...

we're not

...

we we're not existing in the same

...

in the same realities really Our way.

...

Well, no. Especially not if you're by cat.

...

she is

...

No. Well, she is a special case that one.

...

Adrian, is it do you think is our

...

experience of the magical

...

to do with the you're slowing down or the speeding up of

...

time and our perception of

...

of of of time.

...

So

...

We seem to have

...

Have we lost Adrian?

...

in we see, we seem to have draw

...

dropped off. He simply she seems to be dropped off anyway.

...

Well, let's let's let's look at that because

...

I health.

...

you in

...

Mean what you just ...in what you just said, Erica,

...

you mentioned, you know, slowing down, and it seems to me that

...

the the process of slowing down is central to perception of

...

the magical and the wonderful

...

Oh, alright. Press.

...

Leo, you were going to say

...

the wrong button or that talk of magic totally three and

...

Oh, good on. Yeah.

...

I kinda went somewhere else through while. But ...yeah,

...

right.

...

Leo, you you're you were going to go going to mention something. I think

...

Yeah. I mean,

...

Yeah.

...

just then

...

going sorry. I interrupted you.

...

I think for me, a lot of magic

...

isn't just a symbolic of the

...

doing something. It's almost like,

...

becoming the vessel or just

...

being like,

...

the resonance body for something that's already happening.

...

So an observer,

...

No. No. Not a lot observer. It's

...

definitely an an active art act of participate

...

so

...

Hi.

...

but it's more like your

...

sort of the the hollow body that done vibrate

...

don't know if I'm hollow. I probably am but like all the water and

...

so kind of you're you're almost like the

...

the amplifier or the the thing that

...

that them starts by and making the sound

...

but it's not me. I'm just kind of

...

there.

...

allowing it to happen through me. If that makes sense.

...

resonating with with whatever whatever is going on.

...

Well, that that's the nature of that's the nature of

...

of appreciation of music. Is it isn't it?

...

Yeah. I mean, nothing is a concept called deep listening, which

...

become quite fashionable, but it's the idea that

...

is the opposite of spotify, which is a kind of background noise

...

and it's meant to be an something that you

...

uses an compliment to other things deep listening,

...

which is a phrase quote when by paul Not.

...

is the idea of just being with the sound and really

...

deeply present and listening and the thing in the process of doing that

...

it creates say different

...

effect between the listener and and and the music and

...

something that's sort of deeper profound slower

...

you know, the idea like you saying of i've just you become

...

like a vessel, you know, an act you're active in the music.

...

you know, you're not just dis associated from it while it

...

plays along you are actively

...

you know, deep reconnect to these vibrations as that?

...

And in a live performance situation, this

...

then becomes a really interesting dynamic because,, of course,

...

the the perception of time

...

by the audience is shifted by

...

by the performer And I think keep jerry.

...

explain this.

...

eloquently. And and, of course,

...

Well, he's he's had a couple of strokes

...

recently, so. So unless, we will not be getting anymore.

...

extraordinary solar performances from here, but

...

he

...

said that he needed a his audience

...

to do a couple of very simple things

...

And one of them was to simply sit and listen.

...

and he couldn't actually perform

...

without

...

getting that that feedback from from the audience and this

...

the circle of the performer

...

and the audience

...

that thus closed

...

This is a subject that Ideas we're going to

...

keep coming back to again and again, because

...

our relationship to to time and our understanding of

...

or lack of understanding of time.

...

or maybe a shallow understanding of time.

...

with schedules and diaries and appointments.

...

It's it's something that needs to be

...

expanded, and I have

...

times more of that I that I I I want to

...

to talk to you find people

...

about, what we are going to have to leave it.

...

until

...

might be the next

...

time or maybe at the time after

...

or maybe another time or

...

there is

...

better it is again.

...

In. Thanks for sticking your your your nose.

...

always the delight

...

as always most welcome.

...

Alright.

...

Oh, Erica Hard coming in from from Ontario this time.

...

as opposed to her usual hunter of

...

of Bc and Adrian Cooker, of course,

...

from from London.

...

always great.

...

Thank you, Race.

...

to to chat you, and we will catch up again very soon.

...

Thank, everyone.

...

Next week.

...

Right.

...

Thanks, for listening.

Fortune Cookie